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This is a misrepresentation. The Mayor of DC refused help in the days coming up to the protest and is very much on the record as saying they were 'well prepare

by jariel 6y ago

This is a misrepresentation. The Mayor of DC refused help in the days coming up to the protest and is very much on the record as saying they were 'well prepared'. [1] The DoD is a major step to take, it's not like they would have been deployed early. Trump and White House officials exacerbated the situation by refusing to call for help. But for the preparations that matter, the city was the problem. [1] https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/national-international/lawmakers-vow-to-investigate-police-after-capitol-breach/2532662/ https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/national-international/la...

dragontamer 6y ago
> The DoD is a major step to take, it's not like they would have been deployed early. Lets pretend its 2:30pm. Protesters are storming the capitol. Mike Pence was forced into a bunker to hide. Shots fired inside the capitol, killing one of the invaders. Nansi Pelosi is on the Telephone, asking for help. Capitol Police are completely overrun. There are Youtube / Twitch livestreams of protesters breaking and entering inside the Capitol Building. There's all-to-wall coverage of the events on every single news channel and radio network in America. What do YOU do? 1. Send help? 2. Refuse to send help for 3 hours? Take a guess what the DoD did.
- jariel 6y ago
  Trump is planning a major protest. The FBI says there are threats of violence. What do you do? 1) Accept the offer from the national guard et. al. and make preparations? 2) Refuse and say it's all good. The Mayor of DC and capitol police had every offer and chance to make basic preparations such that the National Guard would not have to be called in. [1] I'm not sure about the actions of the DoD, but I wouldn't find it hard to believe that that bureaucracy took a few hours to really move. The national guard is not something you can press a button and they magically appear. They offered to be present, they were turned down beforehand. I blame Trump for the entirety of this, he's the poison in the swamp, but there's no doubt the city leadership made a huge mistake in lack of preparation. [1] https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/america-votes/u-s-capitol-police-rejected-offers-of-federal-help-to-quell-mob-1.5257994 https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/america-votes/u-s-capitol-polic...
  - dragontamer 6y ago
    You are talking about mistakes on January 5th. I'm talking about mistakes on January 6th. Trump was still in charge of the DC National Guard on January 6th, and refused to authorize help. This refusal to authorize help meant that Virginia / Maryland national guard was unable to help until 5pm as well. I understand that it takes hours for military to prepare and brief, but Maryland / Virginia national guard was ready by 3pm IIRC, and just waiting for DC-National Guard (aka: DoD) authorization. > I'm not sure about the actions of the DoD, but I wouldn't find it hard to believe that that bureaucracy took a few hours to really move. All it needed was a phone call from Trump, who has the ultimate authority as the President, and the seat as commander-in-chief.
    - jariel 6y ago
      Yes, we agree that Trump's action were deplorable, borderline treasonous/seditious. But why are so many unwilling to admit/conceded/realize that the US Capitol was very clearly warned of impending problems, and refused help in a very public way. If this were any different, 'normal' president that had a rally that got out of hand, we would be blaming the officials who were straight up told of problems in preparation. Also, very unfortunately, this situation very well shows us how 'freedom of expression' has a dark side as well, in that it allows people to orchestrate violence. It's rare, but it it will happen. So we have to 'find a way' to not have the VP almost assassinated while not becoming China. It's a problem.
      - dragontamer 6y ago
        > But why are so many unwilling to admit/conceded/realize that the US Capitol was very clearly warned of impending problems, and refused help in a very public way. Because on January 5th, the Oath Keepers and Proud Boys weren't considered a threat. That changed on January 6th. I still remember the debates when Biden pointed out that the Proud Boys could be a threat on national TV. Within my circle of friends, that caused some debate. I've had only minor experiences with the Proud Boys: but I generally remember them as those dumbasses with guns at protests (and I didn't really think of them as a threat, especially in a town like DC where marching with guns is illegal). True story: the general feeling in my circle of friends was that Biden was exaggerating the threat. None of us were proud of Trump's answer either, but for Biden to call them out explicitly still seemed unusual. Of course, that changed on January 6th when Proud Boys / Oath Keepers invaded the capitol and demonstrated themselves to be a threat. --------------- In hindsight: we all had a blind spot for the damage right-wing protesters could cause. They've been marching for years with guns and getting rowdier and rowdier. But I think we generally still trusted them to "do the right thing". Generally speaking, we do want to support the police. And seeing people march with pro-police signs is usually a decent thing (racism of Blue Lives Matter vs Black Lives Matter aside, I don't think anyone disagrees with the core message of "Police matter" and "African Americans matter"). It isn't until one of those groups starts beating literal Police officers with their Blue-lives matter flags before we realize that they too were just in the political game, playing us all along.

by jariel 6y ago

dragontamer 6y ago

> The DoD is a major step to take, it's not like they would have been deployed early. Lets pretend its 2:30pm. Protesters are storming the capitol. Mike Pence was forced into a bunker to hide. Shots fired inside the capitol, killing one of the invaders. Nansi Pelosi is on the Telephone, asking for help. Capitol Police are completely overrun. There are Youtube / Twitch livestreams of protesters breaking and entering inside the Capitol Building. There's all-to-wall coverage of the events on every single news channel and radio network in America. What do YOU do? 1. Send help? 2. Refuse to send help for 3 hours? Take a guess what the DoD did.

jariel 6y ago
Trump is planning a major protest. The FBI says there are threats of violence. What do you do? 1) Accept the offer from the national guard et. al. and make preparations? 2) Refuse and say it's all good. The Mayor of DC and capitol police had every offer and chance to make basic preparations such that the National Guard would not have to be called in. [1] I'm not sure about the actions of the DoD, but I wouldn't find it hard to believe that that bureaucracy took a few hours to really move. The national guard is not something you can press a button and they magically appear. They offered to be present, they were turned down beforehand. I blame Trump for the entirety of this, he's the poison in the swamp, but there's no doubt the city leadership made a huge mistake in lack of preparation. [1] https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/america-votes/u-s-capitol-police-rejected-offers-of-federal-help-to-quell-mob-1.5257994 https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/america-votes/u-s-capitol-polic...
- dragontamer 6y ago
  You are talking about mistakes on January 5th. I'm talking about mistakes on January 6th. Trump was still in charge of the DC National Guard on January 6th, and refused to authorize help. This refusal to authorize help meant that Virginia / Maryland national guard was unable to help until 5pm as well. I understand that it takes hours for military to prepare and brief, but Maryland / Virginia national guard was ready by 3pm IIRC, and just waiting for DC-National Guard (aka: DoD) authorization. > I'm not sure about the actions of the DoD, but I wouldn't find it hard to believe that that bureaucracy took a few hours to really move. All it needed was a phone call from Trump, who has the ultimate authority as the President, and the seat as commander-in-chief.
  - jariel 6y ago
    Yes, we agree that Trump's action were deplorable, borderline treasonous/seditious. But why are so many unwilling to admit/conceded/realize that the US Capitol was very clearly warned of impending problems, and refused help in a very public way. If this were any different, 'normal' president that had a rally that got out of hand, we would be blaming the officials who were straight up told of problems in preparation. Also, very unfortunately, this situation very well shows us how 'freedom of expression' has a dark side as well, in that it allows people to orchestrate violence. It's rare, but it it will happen. So we have to 'find a way' to not have the VP almost assassinated while not becoming China. It's a problem.
    - dragontamer 6y ago
      > But why are so many unwilling to admit/conceded/realize that the US Capitol was very clearly warned of impending problems, and refused help in a very public way. Because on January 5th, the Oath Keepers and Proud Boys weren't considered a threat. That changed on January 6th. I still remember the debates when Biden pointed out that the Proud Boys could be a threat on national TV. Within my circle of friends, that caused some debate. I've had only minor experiences with the Proud Boys: but I generally remember them as those dumbasses with guns at protests (and I didn't really think of them as a threat, especially in a town like DC where marching with guns is illegal). True story: the general feeling in my circle of friends was that Biden was exaggerating the threat. None of us were proud of Trump's answer either, but for Biden to call them out explicitly still seemed unusual. Of course, that changed on January 6th when Proud Boys / Oath Keepers invaded the capitol and demonstrated themselves to be a threat. --------------- In hindsight: we all had a blind spot for the damage right-wing protesters could cause. They've been marching for years with guns and getting rowdier and rowdier. But I think we generally still trusted them to "do the right thing". Generally speaking, we do want to support the police. And seeing people march with pro-police signs is usually a decent thing (racism of Blue Lives Matter vs Black Lives Matter aside, I don't think anyone disagrees with the core message of "Police matter" and "African Americans matter"). It isn't until one of those groups starts beating literal Police officers with their Blue-lives matter flags before we realize that they too were just in the political game, playing us all along.