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Disclaimer: Work at AWS now. Opinion my own, and I have both good and bad things about my employer. I also have extreme reservations about capitalism. 1.) This

Disclaimer: Work at AWS now. Opinion my own, and I have both good and bad things about my employer. I also have extreme reservations about capitalism. 1.) This is all competent PR. PR is there to cast the employer in a good light, and bait-and-switch is a tactic used since before there was a formalized PR industry. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if Amazon PR was going to next say 'most of our drivers aren't Amazon employees. We can't control how subcontractors act.' Which is a technically true statement, but misses the point. 2.) The context of this article is recent comments from Amazon's social media team and a director. In an incredibly large organization like Amazon, a director (and members of the social media team) is going to be far removed from the realities of package deliverers. To give the director and social media team the benefit of the doubt, they could be speaking the truth as they believe it. Members of the social media team probably wouldn't work in a position wherein they're forced to urinate in bottles. The director probably isn't aware of the 'leaked document'--which was really just an email sent to an unknown audience. But they typically won't send those types of emails to directors, because they don't want directors to know that stuff. --- Amazon has a lot to atone for. It has some abhorrent practices. But let's not pretend that Amazon is the only company around where line workers don't have time to take adequate bathroom breaks. Or that Amazon's drivers are the only last mile delivery drivers who have issues finding time/places to go to the restroom. Can Amazon do more? Yes. Should Amazon be a corporate leader? Yes. But this a larger problem than Amazon. This happens across industries with line workers and last mile delivery jobs.

neolog 6y ago
> But let's not pretend that Amazon is the only ... Nobody's saying that.
paulryanrogers 6y ago
> Can Amazon do more? Yes. Should Amazon be a corporate leader? Yes. But this a larger problem than Amazon. This happens across industries with line workers and last mile delivery jobs. Amazon is becoming one of the only employers for less skilled workers ... because of Amazon's ruthless pricing, co-mingling, white-labeling, outsourced externalities, and other strategies. This is why we have anti-trust. Whether others are also abusive or incentivize dehumanizing behavior is irrelevant.
- whoknew1122 6y ago
  > "Whether others are also abusive or incentivize dehumanizing behavior is irrelevant." Only irrelevant if you want to fix symptoms, not causes. If you demonize a specific company, you might change a company's practices. This is good for the workers at that company who are treated inhumanely. But know that by focusing on the behavior of a specific company rather than economic system that incentivizes companies to treat humans as disposable cogs, you're letting off the hook every other company that engages in the same behavior. By focusing on the behavior of a company rather than dearth of meaningful regulation to protect workers, you're enabling the exploitation of workers across a swath of industries. If your appendix bursts, morphine will make it hurt less. But it's probably better to do surgery to handle the root cause.
  - paulryanrogers 6y ago
    > By focusing on the behavior of a company rather than dearth of meaningful regulation to protect workers, you're enabling the exploitation of workers across a swath of industries. Pointing out an individual's wrongs doesn't mean I cannot also advocate better regulation for all. Let this instance be another push toward that end. Apathy and "everyone's doing it" cop outs are just as damaging as calling the problem solved after a single corrective action.

neolog 6y ago

> But let's not pretend that Amazon is the only ... Nobody's saying that.

paulryanrogers 6y ago

> Can Amazon do more? Yes. Should Amazon be a corporate leader? Yes. But this a larger problem than Amazon. This happens across industries with line workers and last mile delivery jobs. Amazon is becoming one of the only employers for less skilled workers ... because of Amazon's ruthless pricing, co-mingling, white-labeling, outsourced externalities, and other strategies. This is why we have anti-trust. Whether others are also abusive or incentivize dehumanizing behavior is irrelevant.

whoknew1122 6y ago
> "Whether others are also abusive or incentivize dehumanizing behavior is irrelevant." Only irrelevant if you want to fix symptoms, not causes. If you demonize a specific company, you might change a company's practices. This is good for the workers at that company who are treated inhumanely. But know that by focusing on the behavior of a specific company rather than economic system that incentivizes companies to treat humans as disposable cogs, you're letting off the hook every other company that engages in the same behavior. By focusing on the behavior of a company rather than dearth of meaningful regulation to protect workers, you're enabling the exploitation of workers across a swath of industries. If your appendix bursts, morphine will make it hurt less. But it's probably better to do surgery to handle the root cause.
- paulryanrogers 6y ago
  > By focusing on the behavior of a company rather than dearth of meaningful regulation to protect workers, you're enabling the exploitation of workers across a swath of industries. Pointing out an individual's wrongs doesn't mean I cannot also advocate better regulation for all. Let this instance be another push toward that end. Apathy and "everyone's doing it" cop outs are just as damaging as calling the problem solved after a single corrective action.