3 ms·

To add some context, the author, who is a Libreboot developer, is running a transgender support group[0]. This is interesting because a significant part of the

by hjek 6y ago

To add some context, the author, who is a Libreboot developer, is running a transgender support group[0]. This is interesting because a significant part of the accusations against RMS have been around transphobia[1] for refusing to use "they" for singular[2]. Hence she may have concerns about GPLv4 being more permissive, but it may be just as much about showing support for RMS as a person. [0]: https://vimuser.org/ https://vimuser.org/ [1]: or what RMS would probably call antitransism, https://stallman.org/antiglossary.html#phobia https://stallman.org/antiglossary.html#phobia [2]: https://stallman.org/antiglossary.html#they https://stallman.org/antiglossary.html#they

ASalazarMX 6y ago
> accusations against RMS have been around transphobia[1] for refusing to use "they" for singular Is this really all? On one hand, it's impressive how much cancel muscle the trans community has now, but in the other, I'm also against using they/them as a singular pronoun, it wrecks many phrases. It's even more jarring when you make an effort to appease them, and you find they have wife and children, and still reject gender.
- Volundr 6y ago
  Having a wife and kids does not preclude being a non-binary gender, heck it doesn't even preclude being an ambiguous biological sex.
  - ASalazarMX 6y ago
    But surely being attracted to straight women implies more male/lesbian/bisexual gender than they want to admit.
    - Volundr 6y ago
      What? So are homosexual women "male" in your world? Gender is not defined by who you have sex with.
    - hjek 6y ago
      You don't have to be heterosexual woman to be the wife of someone. Obviously.
      - ASalazarMX 6y ago
        I was talking about a specific couple, with children, where the man identifies as non-binary, and the woman is heterosexual. Apart from his insistence of being addressed as they/them, he's behaviorally indistinguishable from an heterosexual man. To be fair, I understand that non-binary means they don't perceive themselves as exclusively male or female, but I doubt most people do. Sexuality, like most things, is not black and white, but a gradient of greys, so most people would be non-binary, hence the pronoun they/them isn't worth remarking.
- krapp 6y ago
  No. It is incorrect that a significant part of the accusations against Stallman have to do with his use of pronouns. The issues people have with Stallman are with his behavior, specifically around women, with numerous anecdotal accusations of unwanted sexual advances, touching, "creepy" behavior, etc. As well controversial beliefs such as supporting pedophilia (which, in his defense, he has recanted) which have led many within the free software movement - not only radical feminists and SJWs as many will tell you - to feel that he shouldn't be in a position of leadership, and that he does more harm than good despite his influence and advocacy. Here are some references to better give context. [0]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21287006 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21287006 [1]https://selamjie.medium.com/remove-richard-stallman-appendix-a-a7e41e784f88 https://selamjie.medium.com/remove-richard-stallman-appendix... [2]https://medium.com/@thomas.bushnell/a-reflection-on-the-departure-of-rms-18e6a835fd84 https://medium.com/@thomas.bushnell/a-reflection-on-the-depa... [3]http://ebb.org/bkuhn/blog/2019/10/15/fsf-rms.html http://ebb.org/bkuhn/blog/2019/10/15/fsf-rms.html
  - enriquto 6y ago
    Your reference [1] is pure slander that has debunked point by point countless times during the last two years. Insisting to use it can only be done in bad faith. Notice, still, that RMS himself even defended [4] Selam G. against her attackers because she is a young person that was not acting in bad faith, but was simply wrong in many things, and she should have the opportunity to realize her fault in the future. [4] https://yhetil.org/guix-user/20191013214059.47500d2b@posteo.cz/T/ https://yhetil.org/guix-user/20191013214059.47500d2b@posteo....
    - krapp 6y ago
      >Your reference [1] is pure slander that has debunked point by point countless times during the last two years. Has it? Post the debunkings then, since there have been so many of them. Although it's simply a list of things Richard Stallman has actually written, in plain language, so I don't know what there would be to debunk. >[4] Selam G. against her attackers because she is a young person that was not acting in bad faith, but was simply wrong in many things, and she should have the opportunity to realize her fault in the future OK. I posted that primarily because it contains references to accusations of unwanted sexual misconduct by Richard Stallman, and was the article that touched off the current controversy around him. I suppose I could look for more, if that source is unacceptable to you. The salient point, in either case, is that a lot of people believe Richard Stallman's behavior is problematic and has done damage to the free software movement. You can single out Selam G, but this isn't all about them, either.
the_only_law 6y ago
A bit of an aside, but [1] is the most tired pedantry I can think of. Still waiting for people like this to come after chemistry and explain to us all how hydrophobic substances don't literally have an anxiety disorder.

by hjek 6y ago

ASalazarMX 6y ago

> accusations against RMS have been around transphobia[1] for refusing to use "they" for singular Is this really all? On one hand, it's impressive how much cancel muscle the trans community has now, but in the other, I'm also against using they/them as a singular pronoun, it wrecks many phrases. It's even more jarring when you make an effort to appease them, and you find they have wife and children, and still reject gender.

Volundr 6y ago
Having a wife and kids does not preclude being a non-binary gender, heck it doesn't even preclude being an ambiguous biological sex.
- ASalazarMX 6y ago
  But surely being attracted to straight women implies more male/lesbian/bisexual gender than they want to admit.
  - Volundr 6y ago
    What? So are homosexual women "male" in your world? Gender is not defined by who you have sex with.
  - hjek 6y ago
    You don't have to be heterosexual woman to be the wife of someone. Obviously.
    - ASalazarMX 6y ago
      I was talking about a specific couple, with children, where the man identifies as non-binary, and the woman is heterosexual. Apart from his insistence of being addressed as they/them, he's behaviorally indistinguishable from an heterosexual man. To be fair, I understand that non-binary means they don't perceive themselves as exclusively male or female, but I doubt most people do. Sexuality, like most things, is not black and white, but a gradient of greys, so most people would be non-binary, hence the pronoun they/them isn't worth remarking.
krapp 6y ago
No. It is incorrect that a significant part of the accusations against Stallman have to do with his use of pronouns. The issues people have with Stallman are with his behavior, specifically around women, with numerous anecdotal accusations of unwanted sexual advances, touching, "creepy" behavior, etc. As well controversial beliefs such as supporting pedophilia (which, in his defense, he has recanted) which have led many within the free software movement - not only radical feminists and SJWs as many will tell you - to feel that he shouldn't be in a position of leadership, and that he does more harm than good despite his influence and advocacy. Here are some references to better give context. [0]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21287006 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21287006 [1]https://selamjie.medium.com/remove-richard-stallman-appendix-a-a7e41e784f88 https://selamjie.medium.com/remove-richard-stallman-appendix... [2]https://medium.com/@thomas.bushnell/a-reflection-on-the-departure-of-rms-18e6a835fd84 https://medium.com/@thomas.bushnell/a-reflection-on-the-depa... [3]http://ebb.org/bkuhn/blog/2019/10/15/fsf-rms.html http://ebb.org/bkuhn/blog/2019/10/15/fsf-rms.html
- enriquto 6y ago
  Your reference [1] is pure slander that has debunked point by point countless times during the last two years. Insisting to use it can only be done in bad faith. Notice, still, that RMS himself even defended [4] Selam G. against her attackers because she is a young person that was not acting in bad faith, but was simply wrong in many things, and she should have the opportunity to realize her fault in the future. [4] https://yhetil.org/guix-user/20191013214059.47500d2b@posteo.cz/T/ https://yhetil.org/guix-user/20191013214059.47500d2b@posteo....
  - krapp 6y ago
    >Your reference [1] is pure slander that has debunked point by point countless times during the last two years. Has it? Post the debunkings then, since there have been so many of them. Although it's simply a list of things Richard Stallman has actually written, in plain language, so I don't know what there would be to debunk. >[4] Selam G. against her attackers because she is a young person that was not acting in bad faith, but was simply wrong in many things, and she should have the opportunity to realize her fault in the future OK. I posted that primarily because it contains references to accusations of unwanted sexual misconduct by Richard Stallman, and was the article that touched off the current controversy around him. I suppose I could look for more, if that source is unacceptable to you. The salient point, in either case, is that a lot of people believe Richard Stallman's behavior is problematic and has done damage to the free software movement. You can single out Selam G, but this isn't all about them, either.

the_only_law 6y ago

A bit of an aside, but [1] is the most tired pedantry I can think of. Still waiting for people like this to come after chemistry and explain to us all how hydrophobic substances don't literally have an anxiety disorder.