5 ms·

And yet, the level of inequity in france is nowhere near as much as USA. Sure there arn't as many mega rich, but then there arn't people hundreds of thousands

And yet, the level of inequity in france is nowhere near as much as USA. Sure there arn't as many mega rich, but then there arn't people hundreds of thousands of people being bankrupted by medical bills either.

trixie_ 6y ago
I thought there are 'out of pocket maximums' set by the government to avoid that? The most that individuals will have to pay out-of-pocket in 2020 is $8,200 and $16,400 for families.
- aphextron 6y ago
  >The most that individuals will have to pay out-of-pocket in 2020 is $8,200 and $16,400 for families. If you have good insurance, sure. If you're unemployed, one bad illness or injury means instant bankruptcy.
  - zeroonetwothree 6y ago
    We have ACA now, anyone can get affordable insurance.
    - aphextron 6y ago
      Sure, if you have $500 a month laying around no problem.
      - dunnevens 6y ago
        In many states right now, there are zero cost premiums for those who make within 200-250% of the Federal Poverty Line. Percentage varies between states, or sometimes even by counties. This was part of Biden's stimulus package and should help a lot of people.
        URSpider94 6y ago
        In many states. Not in all.
        dunnevens 6y ago
        I mentioned it wasn't in all states. But it's still going to affect the premiums of millions. It's a good thing.
        pmiller2 6y ago
        Yes, and there are a lot of people trapped in the land of "can't afford the insurance, but also don't qualify for subsidies."
    - ljp_206 6y ago
      The conundrum is that anyone who can afford to shell out $500+ a month for the most basic plan doesn't need it / probably has a better plan through work. The complexity and cost of the band aid system we have now is a joke the world over.
    - heavyset_go 6y ago
      Tell that to the millions of people who live in states that never expanded Medicaid under the ACA.
    - knz_ 6y ago
      No, they can't. When I was poor and working full-time for $15/hr the best I could get was a bare minimum healthcare plan that would have taken more than the free money I had after rent and food for the month -- and this was despite not paying any cost for transportation to work and not owning a car or buying anything besides rent, food and the cheapest MVNO phone plan I could find. I didn't live in a high CoL area either. Everyone who isn't wealthy or socially connected to get a job that pays above average is priced out of visiting a doctor at all right now.
    - tshaddox 6y ago
      This is ludicrously far from the truth.
  - aidenn0 6y ago
    There's a huge set of caveats for the maximum out-of-pocket. The maximum is only for "in network" care. You can very easily end up with out-of-network care for various reasons (including going to an in-network hospital but being treated by a doctor who is out-of-network without being informed of this fact). Maximum out-of-pocket for out-of-network is $40k per person per year on my insurance.
- KaiserPro 6y ago
  To put that in context, in the UK the average wage is £38k (we have a much wider distribution than on the continent) The most we'd pay in tax is £8k: https://listentotaxman.com/38000 https://listentotaxman.com/38000? that covers all our health insurance as well. There is no copay, there are no "your condition isn't covered anymore". The only issue now is wait times, but thats because we're balls deep in a pandemic.
Nimitz14 6y ago
The middle class is also much, much poorer.
- pmiller2 6y ago
  So? How's their quality of life?
karaterobot 6y ago
Given that the yellow vest protests have been going on for two and a half years now, I would not hold up France as a model for income equality. The U.S. may be a decade in advance of most countries in this respect, but there's no indication I can find that France has the problem solved with its approach.
- kergonath 6y ago
  > there's no indication I can find that France has the problem solved with its approach They certainly haven’t. However, the yellow vests movement fizzled out a long time ago. And union-bashing certainly isn’t the way to go if you care about equality, however imperfect they are.
  - sonthonax 6y ago
    Unions in France also are kinda racist; those shut out of the union system, that is menial workers, don't have a path into the same protections that unionised workers have.
LMYahooTFY 6y ago
How is being bankrupted by medical bills relevant to unions?
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  The weakness of the latter directly contributes to the former.
sonthonax 6y ago
Depends how you define equitable. Equity isn't just the GINI coefficient, it's also about social mobility. France is pretty spectacular in how the GINI coefficient is fairly low, but social mobility is arguably lower than it in more fiscally 'unequal' societies like the USA.

trixie_ 6y ago

I thought there are 'out of pocket maximums' set by the government to avoid that? The most that individuals will have to pay out-of-pocket in 2020 is $8,200 and $16,400 for families.

aphextron 6y ago
>The most that individuals will have to pay out-of-pocket in 2020 is $8,200 and $16,400 for families. If you have good insurance, sure. If you're unemployed, one bad illness or injury means instant bankruptcy.
- zeroonetwothree 6y ago
  We have ACA now, anyone can get affordable insurance.
  - aphextron 6y ago
    Sure, if you have $500 a month laying around no problem.
    - dunnevens 6y ago
      In many states right now, there are zero cost premiums for those who make within 200-250% of the Federal Poverty Line. Percentage varies between states, or sometimes even by counties. This was part of Biden's stimulus package and should help a lot of people.
      - URSpider94 6y ago
        In many states. Not in all.
        dunnevens 6y ago
        I mentioned it wasn't in all states. But it's still going to affect the premiums of millions. It's a good thing.
      - pmiller2 6y ago
        Yes, and there are a lot of people trapped in the land of "can't afford the insurance, but also don't qualify for subsidies."
  - ljp_206 6y ago
    The conundrum is that anyone who can afford to shell out $500+ a month for the most basic plan doesn't need it / probably has a better plan through work. The complexity and cost of the band aid system we have now is a joke the world over.
  - heavyset_go 6y ago
    Tell that to the millions of people who live in states that never expanded Medicaid under the ACA.
  - knz_ 6y ago
    No, they can't. When I was poor and working full-time for $15/hr the best I could get was a bare minimum healthcare plan that would have taken more than the free money I had after rent and food for the month -- and this was despite not paying any cost for transportation to work and not owning a car or buying anything besides rent, food and the cheapest MVNO phone plan I could find. I didn't live in a high CoL area either. Everyone who isn't wealthy or socially connected to get a job that pays above average is priced out of visiting a doctor at all right now.
  - tshaddox 6y ago
    This is ludicrously far from the truth.
- aidenn0 6y ago
  There's a huge set of caveats for the maximum out-of-pocket. The maximum is only for "in network" care. You can very easily end up with out-of-network care for various reasons (including going to an in-network hospital but being treated by a doctor who is out-of-network without being informed of this fact). Maximum out-of-pocket for out-of-network is $40k per person per year on my insurance.
KaiserPro 6y ago
To put that in context, in the UK the average wage is £38k (we have a much wider distribution than on the continent) The most we'd pay in tax is £8k: https://listentotaxman.com/38000 https://listentotaxman.com/38000? that covers all our health insurance as well. There is no copay, there are no "your condition isn't covered anymore". The only issue now is wait times, but thats because we're balls deep in a pandemic.

Nimitz14 6y ago

The middle class is also much, much poorer.

pmiller2 6y ago
So? How's their quality of life?

karaterobot 6y ago

Given that the yellow vest protests have been going on for two and a half years now, I would not hold up France as a model for income equality. The U.S. may be a decade in advance of most countries in this respect, but there's no indication I can find that France has the problem solved with its approach.

kergonath 6y ago
> there's no indication I can find that France has the problem solved with its approach They certainly haven’t. However, the yellow vests movement fizzled out a long time ago. And union-bashing certainly isn’t the way to go if you care about equality, however imperfect they are.
- sonthonax 6y ago
  Unions in France also are kinda racist; those shut out of the union system, that is menial workers, don't have a path into the same protections that unionised workers have.

LMYahooTFY 6y ago

How is being bankrupted by medical bills relevant to unions?

dragonwriter 6y ago
The weakness of the latter directly contributes to the former.

sonthonax 6y ago

Depends how you define equitable. Equity isn't just the GINI coefficient, it's also about social mobility. France is pretty spectacular in how the GINI coefficient is fairly low, but social mobility is arguably lower than it in more fiscally 'unequal' societies like the USA.