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I've always wondered if there was a link between "The Mongolian invasion wipes out ~25% of Asia" that happened shortly before "the Black Plague wipes out ~25%

I've always wondered if there was a link between "The Mongolian invasion wipes out ~25% of Asia" that happened shortly before "the Black Plague wipes out ~25% of Europe." While I don't doubt the Mongol brutality, the death tolls just seem so much higher than similar events that an additional factor seemed plausible.

inglor_cz 6y ago
Well, war, famine and pestilence has been an unholy trinity since forever, with direct military actions having actually the smallest body count of the three. IIRC - the First World War (1914-1918) was the first big conflict that killed more people with bombs and guns than through hunger and disease. Our ancestors would count disease deaths that happened during the war towards the total death toll.
- m-ee 6y ago
  The end of WW1 overlaps the beginning of the 1918 flu pandemic which killed far more people. Hard to believe the close quarters of trench warfare didn’t contribute.
  - lostlogin 6y ago
    It’s not just the trenches, it’s the the massive movement of people that also contributed. Exporting hundreds of thousands or even millions of healthy young soldiers around the world with a dose of an infectious disease is a perfect recipe. They last a long time and give diseases lots of time to spread in the close quarters of ships and barracks and then their homes.
    - kmonsen 6y ago
      I saw a video that claimed it started with some British Chinese troops being moved through Canada like cattle in railway cars. There was already an outbreak in China the year before. From there it spread to all the army bases in the U.S. who then took it to Europe.
      - inglor_cz 6y ago
        "troops being moved through Canada like cattle in railway cars" Interestingly, Austrian-Hungarian soldiers were also transported to the front in cattle cars (8 Pferde oder 48 Mann = 8 horses or 48 men in a car) and were very jealous of the Germans whose military bureaucracy tried to provide normal passenger railway cars to their troops if possible. The difference was very obvious in the places where the two armies fought side by side, such as Galicia.
        kmonsen 6y ago
        Btw, here is were I heard it, not sure how true it is: https://youtu.be/XQ9WX4qVxEo https://youtu.be/XQ9WX4qVxEo
- Johnjonjoan 6y ago
  I believe the first war with more deaths from battle than disease was the second world war.
  - Someone 6y ago
    I don’t think anybody died from hunger or disease in the Anglo-Zanzibar War from 1896 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Zanzibar_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Zanzibar_War) There may be other short small wars in which arms killed the majority of victims.

inglor_cz 6y ago

Well, war, famine and pestilence has been an unholy trinity since forever, with direct military actions having actually the smallest body count of the three. IIRC - the First World War (1914-1918) was the first big conflict that killed more people with bombs and guns than through hunger and disease. Our ancestors would count disease deaths that happened during the war towards the total death toll.

m-ee 6y ago
The end of WW1 overlaps the beginning of the 1918 flu pandemic which killed far more people. Hard to believe the close quarters of trench warfare didn’t contribute.
- lostlogin 6y ago
  It’s not just the trenches, it’s the the massive movement of people that also contributed. Exporting hundreds of thousands or even millions of healthy young soldiers around the world with a dose of an infectious disease is a perfect recipe. They last a long time and give diseases lots of time to spread in the close quarters of ships and barracks and then their homes.
  - kmonsen 6y ago
    I saw a video that claimed it started with some British Chinese troops being moved through Canada like cattle in railway cars. There was already an outbreak in China the year before. From there it spread to all the army bases in the U.S. who then took it to Europe.
    - inglor_cz 6y ago
      "troops being moved through Canada like cattle in railway cars" Interestingly, Austrian-Hungarian soldiers were also transported to the front in cattle cars (8 Pferde oder 48 Mann = 8 horses or 48 men in a car) and were very jealous of the Germans whose military bureaucracy tried to provide normal passenger railway cars to their troops if possible. The difference was very obvious in the places where the two armies fought side by side, such as Galicia.
      - kmonsen 6y ago
        Btw, here is were I heard it, not sure how true it is: https://youtu.be/XQ9WX4qVxEo https://youtu.be/XQ9WX4qVxEo
Johnjonjoan 6y ago
I believe the first war with more deaths from battle than disease was the second world war.
- Someone 6y ago
  I don’t think anybody died from hunger or disease in the Anglo-Zanzibar War from 1896 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Zanzibar_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Zanzibar_War) There may be other short small wars in which arms killed the majority of victims.