5 ms·

Seeing the current state of Detroit, you have a point that such practices may not have been sustainable.

avs733 6y ago
Detroit did this to themselves. They failed to innovate and got beat by the Japanese on quality. That wasn’t the unions fault, but the union gets blamed. The unions complaints were only that they were gonna get left holding the bag when things got bad while the c suite floated off with full pockets..and they were right.
- garyfirestorm 6y ago
  Your comment unfortunately doesn’t match reality. The uaw people literally avoid any kind of work. I wouldn’t say all of them, but majority of them do. There is zero accountability. They behave with almost no regard to professional rules, they treat foreign nationals as hostile people. No concept of teamwork. First hand experience btw. They have turned simplest of the simple tasks into bureaucratic nightmare, need a bolt removed, oh I’m on a cigarette break which is followed by a lunch break then I’m gonna go over there and chat about something until it’s time to leave. But you can’t touch that wrench and no one can fire me for doing the same thing tomorrow. Somedays I want to quit and start learning serious programming and gtfo here.
  - markdown 6y ago
    Be glad you aren't slaving from 6am to 6pm. Unions fought for the privileges you enjoy now, whether or not you are yourself in a Union. Further, if more people joined and supported Unions, Americans might one day get to enjoy the work/life balance that most of the rest of the world enjoys, with sufficient vacation time, paternity and maternity leave, etc.
    - eru 6y ago
      > Be glad you aren't slaving from 6am to 6pm. Unions fought for the privileges you enjoy now, whether or not you are yourself in a Union. Be glad you aren't sitting in total darkness: I am praying every morning that the sun goes up. Sunlight is a privilege you enjoy now, whether you are joining my prayers or not. (Correlation ain't causation.)
      - cloudfifty 6y ago
        Are you suggesting that the labour movement is actually not the cause of (western-)Europe's significantly better labour/welfare laws than the US - which unsurprisingly happens to never had a European-style mass labour movement?
        eru 6y ago
        I'm not sure about 'better'. They have different laws. American workers do enjoy a better standard of living than European workers.
    - garyfirestorm 6y ago
      I do admit we got some labor rights out of the union movement. But there has to be a balance between rights and duties. I am only talking about accountability. Also I work in R&D and hence my situation is a little different from manufacturing. Also FYI I do slave from 8am to 8pm on most of the days.
  - JBSmoove 6y ago
    Ford, GM, Dodge have made an absolute killing in SUVs and trucks over the last several years. Ford sold about 900,000 F150 in 2019 alone. That's not even counting 250s and higher. And these trucks and SUVs are WILDLY profitable! And they are made with union labor... I just don't get it since "the uaw people literally avoid any kind of work" How do they build millions of trucks and SUVs then?
TaylorAlexander 6y ago
Without looking at how Detroit failed you cannot deduce from the presence of unions that they were the cause.

Detroit did this to themselves. They failed to innovate and got beat by the Japanese on quality. That wasn’t the unions fault, but the union gets blamed. The unions complaints were only that they were gonna get left holding the bag when things got bad while the c suite floated off with full pockets..and they were right.

garyfirestorm 6y ago
Your comment unfortunately doesn’t match reality. The uaw people literally avoid any kind of work. I wouldn’t say all of them, but majority of them do. There is zero accountability. They behave with almost no regard to professional rules, they treat foreign nationals as hostile people. No concept of teamwork. First hand experience btw. They have turned simplest of the simple tasks into bureaucratic nightmare, need a bolt removed, oh I’m on a cigarette break which is followed by a lunch break then I’m gonna go over there and chat about something until it’s time to leave. But you can’t touch that wrench and no one can fire me for doing the same thing tomorrow. Somedays I want to quit and start learning serious programming and gtfo here.
- markdown 6y ago
  Be glad you aren't slaving from 6am to 6pm. Unions fought for the privileges you enjoy now, whether or not you are yourself in a Union. Further, if more people joined and supported Unions, Americans might one day get to enjoy the work/life balance that most of the rest of the world enjoys, with sufficient vacation time, paternity and maternity leave, etc.
  - eru 6y ago
    > Be glad you aren't slaving from 6am to 6pm. Unions fought for the privileges you enjoy now, whether or not you are yourself in a Union. Be glad you aren't sitting in total darkness: I am praying every morning that the sun goes up. Sunlight is a privilege you enjoy now, whether you are joining my prayers or not. (Correlation ain't causation.)
    - cloudfifty 6y ago
      Are you suggesting that the labour movement is actually not the cause of (western-)Europe's significantly better labour/welfare laws than the US - which unsurprisingly happens to never had a European-style mass labour movement?
      - eru 6y ago
        I'm not sure about 'better'. They have different laws. American workers do enjoy a better standard of living than European workers.
  - garyfirestorm 6y ago
    I do admit we got some labor rights out of the union movement. But there has to be a balance between rights and duties. I am only talking about accountability. Also I work in R&D and hence my situation is a little different from manufacturing. Also FYI I do slave from 8am to 8pm on most of the days.
- JBSmoove 6y ago
  Ford, GM, Dodge have made an absolute killing in SUVs and trucks over the last several years. Ford sold about 900,000 F150 in 2019 alone. That's not even counting 250s and higher. And these trucks and SUVs are WILDLY profitable! And they are made with union labor... I just don't get it since "the uaw people literally avoid any kind of work" How do they build millions of trucks and SUVs then?

TaylorAlexander 6y ago

Without looking at how Detroit failed you cannot deduce from the presence of unions that they were the cause.