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Not in Australia, where we have much more roof-top solar (and which is less than half-the-price installed of roof-top in the US)

by flgb 6y ago

kragen 6y ago
Interesting! Do you have any idea why it's so much cheaper?
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  Shipping costs from China, who is the source of key materials?
  - kragen 6y ago
    You might think so, but no. It's the wrong order of magnitude. That could add maybe US$2000 per TEU, which is 21 tonnes of cargo such as solar panels. You can ship a TEU anywhere in the world for US$3000 or less. A 1m² solar panel might weigh 20 kg, so that's roughly 1000 solar pannels, or US$2 per solar panel. That solar panel is about 200 Wp, so this works out to US$0.01 of shipping cost per peak watt. Or less. The solar module itself costs some US$0.18/Wp wholesale (the article cites higher prices, but see http://pvinsights.com/ http://pvinsights.com/ https://www.solarserver.de/pv-modulpreise/ https://www.solarserver.de/pv-modulpreise/ https://www.energytrend.com/solar-price.html https://www.energytrend.com/solar-price.html for more detailed and reliable pricing info), and the whole installation including the panels maybe US$0.50/Wp. So there's no way that an extra US$0.01/Wp could double the cost of the installation. Bump it by 2% maybe. China isn't the source of key materials. There aren't any key materials; the ingredients in PV cells, except for silver, are abundant everywhere. It's the source of the fully manufactured photovoltaic modules, a finished product that you can prop up in the sun and connect to a battery through a diode. If shipping costs were so high relative to the value of the finished product, every country would have its own solar-cell manufacturing plants, the way every country has its own liquid-oxygen plants, and there wouldn't be such a thing as a worldwide concentration of PV manufacturing in China.
    - kragen 6y ago
      *panels
- flgb 6y ago
  Hyper-competitive low-margin market, many very efficient vertically-integrated solar sales businesses (sales, installation, logistics), lower selling costs (very engaged consumers), most homes single story so lower installation costs, and lower permitting and connection costs.
  - kragen 6y ago
    Thank you very much! Do you have any idea how the costs of a typical Australian rooftop system break down? I'm curious about the relative importance of these factors.

Not in Australia, where we have much more roof-top solar (and which is less than half-the-price installed of roof-top in the US)

by flgb 6y ago

Not in Australia, where we have much more roof-top solar (and which is less than half-the-price installed of roof-top in the US)

kragen 6y ago

Interesting! Do you have any idea why it's so much cheaper?

dragonwriter 6y ago
Shipping costs from China, who is the source of key materials?
- kragen 6y ago
  You might think so, but no. It's the wrong order of magnitude. That could add maybe US$2000 per TEU, which is 21 tonnes of cargo such as solar panels. You can ship a TEU anywhere in the world for US$3000 or less. A 1m² solar panel might weigh 20 kg, so that's roughly 1000 solar pannels, or US$2 per solar panel. That solar panel is about 200 Wp, so this works out to US$0.01 of shipping cost per peak watt. Or less. The solar module itself costs some US$0.18/Wp wholesale (the article cites higher prices, but see http://pvinsights.com/ http://pvinsights.com/ https://www.solarserver.de/pv-modulpreise/ https://www.solarserver.de/pv-modulpreise/ https://www.energytrend.com/solar-price.html https://www.energytrend.com/solar-price.html for more detailed and reliable pricing info), and the whole installation including the panels maybe US$0.50/Wp. So there's no way that an extra US$0.01/Wp could double the cost of the installation. Bump it by 2% maybe. China isn't the source of key materials. There aren't any key materials; the ingredients in PV cells, except for silver, are abundant everywhere. It's the source of the fully manufactured photovoltaic modules, a finished product that you can prop up in the sun and connect to a battery through a diode. If shipping costs were so high relative to the value of the finished product, every country would have its own solar-cell manufacturing plants, the way every country has its own liquid-oxygen plants, and there wouldn't be such a thing as a worldwide concentration of PV manufacturing in China.
  - kragen 6y ago
    *panels
flgb 6y ago
Hyper-competitive low-margin market, many very efficient vertically-integrated solar sales businesses (sales, installation, logistics), lower selling costs (very engaged consumers), most homes single story so lower installation costs, and lower permitting and connection costs.
- kragen 6y ago
  Thank you very much! Do you have any idea how the costs of a typical Australian rooftop system break down? I'm curious about the relative importance of these factors.