6 ms·

It's really sad to see the witch hunting against RMS. A man who has committed no crime and has only shared a few honest and good faith opinions. Do we have to t

It's really sad to see the witch hunting against RMS. A man who has committed no crime and has only shared a few honest and good faith opinions. Do we have to try to scrub people from existence when their opinions are not the same as yours?

gameswithgo 6y ago
Speaking of good faith opinions, are you arguing in good faith that the witch hunt is just because his opinion is not the same? Can we refuse to do business with people when their opinions are legitimately abhorrent? Can we distinguish between differences of opinion and abhorrent opinions?
- foobar33333 6y ago
  Anyone can refuse to do business at any time. I'm suggesting that this move from redhat is a disappointment but not that it should be illegal.
- hui-zheng 6y ago
  Assuming this email is the root cause of everything. https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/6405929/09132019142056-0001.pdf https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/6405929/091320191... Could you explain what part of this email is legitimately abhorrent about?
- kelnos 6y ago
  > Can we refuse to do business with people when their opinions are legitimately abhorrent? Absolutely. Unless the refusal is about several legally-protected categories. > Can we distinguish between differences of opinion and abhorrent opinions? Some people can, some people can't.
jordigh 6y ago
Nobody's saying we should scrub RMS from existence. Just don't secretly put him in charge of the FSF, without warning, and announce it during Libreplanet like it was his birthday party. Nobody from the FSF even knew this would happen except the board. It was a surprise to all of the FSF staff too. Already one board member has resigned over this. It's completely wrong to be running the FSF like your own private fan club instead of what it's supposed to be: a foundation for all of us, to defend software freedom for all of us. It should not be RMS headquarters. He wants to keep blogging about how harmless it is to have sex with teenage girls, he can keep doing that. He doesn't have to be in the board of the FSF to do it.
- foobar33333 6y ago
  >He wants to keep blogging about how harmless it is to have sex with teenage girls, he can keep doing that. He doesn't have to be in the board of the FSF to do it. He hasn't done this since 2006 and has since published that he no longer stands behind the statement. Do we want to live in a world where a single incorrect thought made decades ago will forever tarnish your ability to participate in society?
  - varikin 6y ago
    That's a pretty big statement to live down. edit: I seem to lost the ability to reply to your other statements. Is he actually trying to make himself a better person? Other people have listed where he has made several statements over the years since 2006 that show that he hasn't changed what he thinks. Just because he was a pioneer in programming and created the idea of free software does not give him free pass the rest of his life.
    - foobar33333 6y ago
      HN and many online sites often go on about how unfair it is that previous criminals are locked out of work and have no path back to normal. RMS in this case is not even a criminal, simply someone who said he was skeptical of the effectiveness and need of the current laws 15 years ago. Does this not go against the desire to help people come back from previous mistakes?
      - hannasanarion 6y ago
        It is not fair that criminals find it hard to find work. Therefore, we should make El Chapo the next Attorney General. And OJ Simpson can be President while we're at it.
  - jordigh 6y ago
    > He hasn't done this since 2006 https://web.archive.org/web/20161107050933/https://www.stallman.org/archives/2016-jul-oct.html#31_October_2016_%28Down's_syndrome%29 https://web.archive.org/web/20161107050933/https://www.stall... https://web.archive.org/web/20170202025227/https://www.stallman.org/archives/2016-nov-feb.html#14_December_2016_%28Campaign_of_bull-headed_prudery%29 https://web.archive.org/web/20170202025227/https://www.stall... https://web.archive.org/web/20170224174306/https://www.stallman.org/archives/2016-nov-feb.html#23_February_2017_%28A_violent_sex_offender%29 https://web.archive.org/web/20170224174306/https://www.stall... https://web.archive.org/web/20170612074722/http://stallman.org/archives/2017-mar-jun.html#26_May_2017_%28Prudish_ignorantism%29 https://web.archive.org/web/20170612074722/http://stallman.o... https://web.archive.org/web/20170616044924/https://www.stallman.org/archives/2017-mar-jun.html#13_June_2017_%28Sex_offender_registry%29 https://web.archive.org/web/20170616044924/https://www.stall... https://web.archive.org/web/20171020041022/http://stallman.org/archives/2017-jul-oct.html#10_October_2017_%28Laws_against_having_sex_with_an_animal%29 https://web.archive.org/web/20171020041022/http://stallman.o... https://web.archive.org/web/20180131020215/https://stallman.org/archives/2017-jul-oct.html#29_October_2017_%28Pestering_women%29 https://web.archive.org/web/20180131020215/https://stallman.... https://web.archive.org/web/20180104112431/https://www.stallman.org/archives/2017-nov-feb.html#27_November_2017_%28Roy_Moore's_relationships%29 https://web.archive.org/web/20180104112431/https://www.stall... https://web.archive.org/web/20180509120046/https://stallman.org/archives/2018-mar-jun.html#30_April_2018_%28UN_peacekeepers_in_South_Sudan%29 https://web.archive.org/web/20180509120046/https://stallman.... https://web.archive.org/web/20180911075211/https://www.stallman.org/archives/2018-jul-oct.html#17_July_2018_%28The_bullshitter's_flirting%29 https://web.archive.org/web/20180911075211/https://www.stall... https://web.archive.org/web/20180911075211/https://www.stallman.org/archives/2018-jul-oct.html#21_August_2018_%28Age_and_attraction%29 https://web.archive.org/web/20180911075211/https://www.stall... https://web.archive.org/web/20180924231708/https://stallman.org/archives/2018-jul-oct.html#23_September_2018_%28Cody_Wilson%29 https://web.archive.org/web/20180924231708/https://stallman.... https://web.archive.org/web/20180919100154/https://stallman.org/antiglossary.html#assult https://web.archive.org/web/20180919100154/https://stallman.... https://web.archive.org/web/20181113161736/https://www.stallman.org/archives/2018-sep-dec.html#6_November_2018_%28Sex_according_to_porn%29 https://web.archive.org/web/20181113161736/https://www.stall... https://web.archive.org/web/20190325024048/https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jan-apr.html#14_February_2019_%28Respecting_peoples_right_to_say_no%29 https://web.archive.org/web/20190325024048/https://stallman.... https://www.stallman.org/archives/2019-may-aug.html#11_June_2019_%28Stretching_meaning_of_terms%29 https://www.stallman.org/archives/2019-may-aug.html#11_June_... https://web.archive.org/web/20190801201704/https://stallman.org/archives/2019-may-aug.html#12_June_2019_%28Declining_sex_rates%29 https://web.archive.org/web/20190801201704/https://stallman.... https://web.archive.org/web/20190801201704/https://stallman.org/archives/2019-may-aug.html#30_July_2019_%28Al_Franken%29 https://web.archive.org/web/20190801201704/https://stallman.... https://web.archive.org/web/20190903050208/https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#27_August_2019_%28Me-too_frenzy%29 https://web.archive.org/web/20190903050208/https://stallman.... https://web.archive.org/web/20191011023557/https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#21_September_2019_%28Sex_workers%29 https://web.archive.org/web/20191011023557/https://stallman.... https://web.archive.org/web/20180924231708/https://stallman.org/archives/2018-jul-oct.html#23_September_2018_%28Cody_Wilson%29 https://web.archive.org/web/20180924231708/https://stallman.... > has since published that he no longer stands behind the statement This is true, but he's got plenty of other statements he still stands behind. I'm not sure he's said anything about how we shouldn't have sex with animals either.
The_rationalist 6y ago
I have not looked at the accusations claims in depth but anyway RMS has factually brought more utility to mankind (through network effects) than almost anyone else I can think of. Hence attacking him and the FSF seems quite hypocrite and ungrateful compared to what he gave to us. Critizing him is fine, witch hunting is not.
- mprev 6y ago
  More than Fleming, Gutenberg, Bell, the Wright brothers, Einstein, Torvalds? No.
  - The_rationalist 6y ago
    This is not the point, my comment is not a contest for which human has given the biggest utilitarian impact, the point is that he is among those men.
  - wrycoder 6y ago
    More than Torvalds, yes.
dale_glass 6y ago
Not being a criminal is about the bare minimum requirement a decent person should pass. The trouble with Stallman is that as far as I can tell he's just barely tolerated by pretty much everybody who had to interact with him in person. Yes, he did a very good thing, and that contribution should be recognized. And he's got some great ideas that I can agree with on the subject of software. But unfortunately he's just not a good leader, whether in the area of the FSF's agenda or even software development and at this point is an active detriment to his own cause. Yes, I'll grant that he's been unfairly criticized for some things, but even ignoring all that doesn't make him a good choice for the position.
- nix23 6y ago
  >Not being a criminal is about the bare minimum requirement a decent person should pass. Funny it's the opposite with US-Presidents.

gameswithgo 6y ago

Speaking of good faith opinions, are you arguing in good faith that the witch hunt is just because his opinion is not the same? Can we refuse to do business with people when their opinions are legitimately abhorrent? Can we distinguish between differences of opinion and abhorrent opinions?

foobar33333 6y ago
Anyone can refuse to do business at any time. I'm suggesting that this move from redhat is a disappointment but not that it should be illegal.
hui-zheng 6y ago
Assuming this email is the root cause of everything. https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/6405929/09132019142056-0001.pdf https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/6405929/091320191... Could you explain what part of this email is legitimately abhorrent about?
kelnos 6y ago
> Can we refuse to do business with people when their opinions are legitimately abhorrent? Absolutely. Unless the refusal is about several legally-protected categories. > Can we distinguish between differences of opinion and abhorrent opinions? Some people can, some people can't.

jordigh 6y ago

Nobody's saying we should scrub RMS from existence. Just don't secretly put him in charge of the FSF, without warning, and announce it during Libreplanet like it was his birthday party. Nobody from the FSF even knew this would happen except the board. It was a surprise to all of the FSF staff too. Already one board member has resigned over this. It's completely wrong to be running the FSF like your own private fan club instead of what it's supposed to be: a foundation for all of us, to defend software freedom for all of us. It should not be RMS headquarters. He wants to keep blogging about how harmless it is to have sex with teenage girls, he can keep doing that. He doesn't have to be in the board of the FSF to do it.

foobar33333 6y ago
>He wants to keep blogging about how harmless it is to have sex with teenage girls, he can keep doing that. He doesn't have to be in the board of the FSF to do it. He hasn't done this since 2006 and has since published that he no longer stands behind the statement. Do we want to live in a world where a single incorrect thought made decades ago will forever tarnish your ability to participate in society?
- varikin 6y ago
  That's a pretty big statement to live down. edit: I seem to lost the ability to reply to your other statements. Is he actually trying to make himself a better person? Other people have listed where he has made several statements over the years since 2006 that show that he hasn't changed what he thinks. Just because he was a pioneer in programming and created the idea of free software does not give him free pass the rest of his life.
  - foobar33333 6y ago
    HN and many online sites often go on about how unfair it is that previous criminals are locked out of work and have no path back to normal. RMS in this case is not even a criminal, simply someone who said he was skeptical of the effectiveness and need of the current laws 15 years ago. Does this not go against the desire to help people come back from previous mistakes?
    - hannasanarion 6y ago
      It is not fair that criminals find it hard to find work. Therefore, we should make El Chapo the next Attorney General. And OJ Simpson can be President while we're at it.
- jordigh 6y ago
  > He hasn't done this since 2006 https://web.archive.org/web/20161107050933/https://www.stallman.org/archives/2016-jul-oct.html#31_October_2016_%28Down's_syndrome%29 https://web.archive.org/web/20161107050933/https://www.stall... https://web.archive.org/web/20170202025227/https://www.stallman.org/archives/2016-nov-feb.html#14_December_2016_%28Campaign_of_bull-headed_prudery%29 https://web.archive.org/web/20170202025227/https://www.stall... https://web.archive.org/web/20170224174306/https://www.stallman.org/archives/2016-nov-feb.html#23_February_2017_%28A_violent_sex_offender%29 https://web.archive.org/web/20170224174306/https://www.stall... https://web.archive.org/web/20170612074722/http://stallman.org/archives/2017-mar-jun.html#26_May_2017_%28Prudish_ignorantism%29 https://web.archive.org/web/20170612074722/http://stallman.o... https://web.archive.org/web/20170616044924/https://www.stallman.org/archives/2017-mar-jun.html#13_June_2017_%28Sex_offender_registry%29 https://web.archive.org/web/20170616044924/https://www.stall... https://web.archive.org/web/20171020041022/http://stallman.org/archives/2017-jul-oct.html#10_October_2017_%28Laws_against_having_sex_with_an_animal%29 https://web.archive.org/web/20171020041022/http://stallman.o... https://web.archive.org/web/20180131020215/https://stallman.org/archives/2017-jul-oct.html#29_October_2017_%28Pestering_women%29 https://web.archive.org/web/20180131020215/https://stallman.... https://web.archive.org/web/20180104112431/https://www.stallman.org/archives/2017-nov-feb.html#27_November_2017_%28Roy_Moore's_relationships%29 https://web.archive.org/web/20180104112431/https://www.stall... https://web.archive.org/web/20180509120046/https://stallman.org/archives/2018-mar-jun.html#30_April_2018_%28UN_peacekeepers_in_South_Sudan%29 https://web.archive.org/web/20180509120046/https://stallman.... https://web.archive.org/web/20180911075211/https://www.stallman.org/archives/2018-jul-oct.html#17_July_2018_%28The_bullshitter's_flirting%29 https://web.archive.org/web/20180911075211/https://www.stall... https://web.archive.org/web/20180911075211/https://www.stallman.org/archives/2018-jul-oct.html#21_August_2018_%28Age_and_attraction%29 https://web.archive.org/web/20180911075211/https://www.stall... https://web.archive.org/web/20180924231708/https://stallman.org/archives/2018-jul-oct.html#23_September_2018_%28Cody_Wilson%29 https://web.archive.org/web/20180924231708/https://stallman.... https://web.archive.org/web/20180919100154/https://stallman.org/antiglossary.html#assult https://web.archive.org/web/20180919100154/https://stallman.... https://web.archive.org/web/20181113161736/https://www.stallman.org/archives/2018-sep-dec.html#6_November_2018_%28Sex_according_to_porn%29 https://web.archive.org/web/20181113161736/https://www.stall... https://web.archive.org/web/20190325024048/https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jan-apr.html#14_February_2019_%28Respecting_peoples_right_to_say_no%29 https://web.archive.org/web/20190325024048/https://stallman.... https://www.stallman.org/archives/2019-may-aug.html#11_June_2019_%28Stretching_meaning_of_terms%29 https://www.stallman.org/archives/2019-may-aug.html#11_June_... https://web.archive.org/web/20190801201704/https://stallman.org/archives/2019-may-aug.html#12_June_2019_%28Declining_sex_rates%29 https://web.archive.org/web/20190801201704/https://stallman.... https://web.archive.org/web/20190801201704/https://stallman.org/archives/2019-may-aug.html#30_July_2019_%28Al_Franken%29 https://web.archive.org/web/20190801201704/https://stallman.... https://web.archive.org/web/20190903050208/https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#27_August_2019_%28Me-too_frenzy%29 https://web.archive.org/web/20190903050208/https://stallman.... https://web.archive.org/web/20191011023557/https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#21_September_2019_%28Sex_workers%29 https://web.archive.org/web/20191011023557/https://stallman.... https://web.archive.org/web/20180924231708/https://stallman.org/archives/2018-jul-oct.html#23_September_2018_%28Cody_Wilson%29 https://web.archive.org/web/20180924231708/https://stallman.... > has since published that he no longer stands behind the statement This is true, but he's got plenty of other statements he still stands behind. I'm not sure he's said anything about how we shouldn't have sex with animals either.

The_rationalist 6y ago

I have not looked at the accusations claims in depth but anyway RMS has factually brought more utility to mankind (through network effects) than almost anyone else I can think of. Hence attacking him and the FSF seems quite hypocrite and ungrateful compared to what he gave to us. Critizing him is fine, witch hunting is not.

mprev 6y ago
More than Fleming, Gutenberg, Bell, the Wright brothers, Einstein, Torvalds? No.
- The_rationalist 6y ago
  This is not the point, my comment is not a contest for which human has given the biggest utilitarian impact, the point is that he is among those men.
- wrycoder 6y ago
  More than Torvalds, yes.

dale_glass 6y ago

Not being a criminal is about the bare minimum requirement a decent person should pass. The trouble with Stallman is that as far as I can tell he's just barely tolerated by pretty much everybody who had to interact with him in person. Yes, he did a very good thing, and that contribution should be recognized. And he's got some great ideas that I can agree with on the subject of software. But unfortunately he's just not a good leader, whether in the area of the FSF's agenda or even software development and at this point is an active detriment to his own cause. Yes, I'll grant that he's been unfairly criticized for some things, but even ignoring all that doesn't make him a good choice for the position.

nix23 6y ago
>Not being a criminal is about the bare minimum requirement a decent person should pass. Funny it's the opposite with US-Presidents.