4 ms·

If you're making Mac & cheese from scratch, why not just use real cheese? Or multiple cheeses (and herbs and...)?

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
lejohnq 6y ago
Using real cheese is surprisingly difficult because it doesn’t melt in the nice creamy way without additions. Sodium citrate for example helps your cheese melt creamily. The powder likely contains the right balance of additions that give you a great creamy mac & cheese. A good reference: https://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2016/11/sodium-citrate-baked-mac-and-cheese.html https://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2016/11/sodium-citrate-b...
- UncleOxidant 6y ago
  Baking is usually best when making mac&cheese with actual cheese.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
    Baked mac & cheese is just plain better. There, I said it.
- archagon 6y ago
  In lieu of sodium citrate, I think you can just put a bit of a Kraft single in your sauce to emulsify it.
- GordonS 6y ago
  > Using real cheese is surprisingly difficult because it doesn’t melt in the nice creamy way Eh, is this a US thing? Here in the UK, I just use cheddar - any brand, any maturity you fancy, and it melts just fine. I spent several months in the US around 2005, and I do recall the cheese was pretty terrible - bland, with an odd, plasticy texture.
  - knodi123 6y ago
    > and I do recall the cheese was pretty terrible - bland, with an odd, plasticy texture. Aw, dude, you're supposed to remove the individual plastic wrap from the cheese before serving!
    - Symbiote 6y ago
      It's not legal to call that stuff "cheese" in the EU (and I assume the UK hasn't changed that just yet). In Britain they label it "singles" or "slices" or something equally meaningless. They do seem able to use "cheese" when English isn't a national language, though they then can't use the local word for cheese. https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/274219518 https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/274219518
      - samcheng 6y ago
        If you really want to get offended, they call those processed cheese slices "cheddar" in east Asia...
      - nrp 6y ago
        The FDA in the US has regulations on naming these products as well: https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm?fr=133.173 https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFR... They are called "pasteurized process cheese food" or "pasteurized prepared cheese product" depending on their ingredients. There are pretty specific FDA regulations on cheese naming that are presumably similar to the equivalents in the EU: https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm?CFRPart=133 https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFR...
  - vsef 6y ago
    No, it's not a US thing. Cheddar melts fine, but the harder and more mature the cheese, the more the solids and oils will tend to separate and not be as super smoothly emulsified if you melt it onto noodles on its own. The point of a roux (traditional, French cheese sauces), sodium citrate (modern), or using processed cheese (American boxes, what Americans are thinking of texture-wise when they think of mac & cheese) is all to get the cheese to be very creamily emulsified. Processed cheese is just curd dregs + emulsifiers. Just melting cheese is fine but its not the same effect.
- tomjakubowski 6y ago
  You can also "steam and cream" to make any cheese "melty" like processed American cheese. Another Serious Eats reference. https://aht.seriouseats.com/2011/07/the-burger-lab-how-to-make-any-cheese-melt-like-american-almost.html https://aht.seriouseats.com/2011/07/the-burger-lab-how-to-ma...
lupire 6y ago
It's not from scratch, it's from cheese powder. May as well ask, why not curdle the cheese yourself?
- astura 6y ago
  Yeah, you can basically do this with any packaged product: Why buy yogurt when you can make it yourself? Why buy salad dressing when you can make it yourself? Why buy soy sauce when you can make it yourself? Why buy hot sauce when you can make it yourself? Why buy canned food when you could can it yourself? Why buy soy milk when you can make it yourself? Why buy salsa when you can make it yourself? Why buy mayonnaise when you can make it yourself? Why buy tomato sauce when you can make it yourself? Why buy soup mix when you can make it yourself? Etc. It's a matter of personal taste, cost, convenience, time, resources, skill level, shelf life, day-to-day diet, etc.
Balgair 6y ago
The main impediment is that with a 'proper' Mac'n'Cheese you need to make a roux before adding the cheese in. Roux are somewhat above the skill level of the average cook. It's not super complex (just equal weights of flour and butter), but the timing and the heat are. Undercooked roux are a bit sour,raw, and yeasty, while over cooked roux are burnt. The time between over and undercooked can be down to only a few seconds. It takes a fair few failed roux to get right, hence it is just above the experience levels of most home cooks. Aside: A roux is the basis of many 'creamy' sauces. Learning the skill of roux making is very much worth your time as a home cook. If you still can't manage to get it down, try xantham gum instead. Mix it in with some oil first, then add your liquids. Again, you'll need to experiment with hydration ratios, but it's a much easier and faster method that will also work for cold dishes. It's powerful stuff, maybe a teaspoon per liter of water will thicken quite a bit.
- azinman2 6y ago
  Many people bake mac & cheese without a roux. In my experience, roux’s aren’t quite as delicate as you’re making it out to be. Cook it enough so that the flour isn’t raw, and it’ll be clear when it’s browning too far. All you gotta do is add your milk and start mixing. It maybe not common knowledge to a novice, but I don’t believe it’s particularly difficult to get right enough for mac & cheese.
- phonypc 6y ago
  I think this is overstated. In a starchy dish like pasta, I doubt 90% of people would notice a completely uncooked roux. And unless you're absolutely blasting the heat, in which case most food behaves the same, there's no way for a roux to go from undercooked to burnt in a few seconds. It can take an hour to make a dark roux for gumbo.
astura 6y ago
Because those are perishable products and I basically never just happen to have the proper cheese in the proper quantities for macaroni and cheese in the house. If I wanted to make it "from scratch" I'd have to plan ahead; my day-to-day diet has very little cheese in it. Cheese powder, on the other hand, is non-perishable so it can always be kept on hand. It's also MUCH cheaper.
jerf 6y ago
Typically I use the cheese powder as a sauce with milk and butter, and augment with "real cheese". However, cheese powder does in my experience have a stronger flavor than real cheese; if you want that super-cheesy flavor the powder is very good at it. Arguably I'm cutting the cheese powder with the real cheese. Also, a sibling reply mentions roux. I haven't got that option myself because I'm allergic to wheat, so I'm personally stuck with "alternatives" regardless.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

Using real cheese is surprisingly difficult because it doesn’t melt in the nice creamy way without additions. Sodium citrate for example helps your cheese melt creamily. The powder likely contains the right balance of additions that give you a great creamy mac & cheese. A good reference: https://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2016/11/sodium-citrate-baked-mac-and-cheese.html https://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2016/11/sodium-citrate-b...

UncleOxidant 6y ago
Baking is usually best when making mac&cheese with actual cheese.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
  Baked mac & cheese is just plain better. There, I said it.
archagon 6y ago
In lieu of sodium citrate, I think you can just put a bit of a Kraft single in your sauce to emulsify it.
GordonS 6y ago
> Using real cheese is surprisingly difficult because it doesn’t melt in the nice creamy way Eh, is this a US thing? Here in the UK, I just use cheddar - any brand, any maturity you fancy, and it melts just fine. I spent several months in the US around 2005, and I do recall the cheese was pretty terrible - bland, with an odd, plasticy texture.
- knodi123 6y ago
  > and I do recall the cheese was pretty terrible - bland, with an odd, plasticy texture. Aw, dude, you're supposed to remove the individual plastic wrap from the cheese before serving!
  - Symbiote 6y ago
    It's not legal to call that stuff "cheese" in the EU (and I assume the UK hasn't changed that just yet). In Britain they label it "singles" or "slices" or something equally meaningless. They do seem able to use "cheese" when English isn't a national language, though they then can't use the local word for cheese. https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/274219518 https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/274219518
    - samcheng 6y ago
      If you really want to get offended, they call those processed cheese slices "cheddar" in east Asia...
    - nrp 6y ago
      The FDA in the US has regulations on naming these products as well: https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm?fr=133.173 https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFR... They are called "pasteurized process cheese food" or "pasteurized prepared cheese product" depending on their ingredients. There are pretty specific FDA regulations on cheese naming that are presumably similar to the equivalents in the EU: https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm?CFRPart=133 https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFR...
- vsef 6y ago
  No, it's not a US thing. Cheddar melts fine, but the harder and more mature the cheese, the more the solids and oils will tend to separate and not be as super smoothly emulsified if you melt it onto noodles on its own. The point of a roux (traditional, French cheese sauces), sodium citrate (modern), or using processed cheese (American boxes, what Americans are thinking of texture-wise when they think of mac & cheese) is all to get the cheese to be very creamily emulsified. Processed cheese is just curd dregs + emulsifiers. Just melting cheese is fine but its not the same effect.
tomjakubowski 6y ago
You can also "steam and cream" to make any cheese "melty" like processed American cheese. Another Serious Eats reference. https://aht.seriouseats.com/2011/07/the-burger-lab-how-to-make-any-cheese-melt-like-american-almost.html https://aht.seriouseats.com/2011/07/the-burger-lab-how-to-ma...

lupire 6y ago

It's not from scratch, it's from cheese powder. May as well ask, why not curdle the cheese yourself?

astura 6y ago
Yeah, you can basically do this with any packaged product: Why buy yogurt when you can make it yourself? Why buy salad dressing when you can make it yourself? Why buy soy sauce when you can make it yourself? Why buy hot sauce when you can make it yourself? Why buy canned food when you could can it yourself? Why buy soy milk when you can make it yourself? Why buy salsa when you can make it yourself? Why buy mayonnaise when you can make it yourself? Why buy tomato sauce when you can make it yourself? Why buy soup mix when you can make it yourself? Etc. It's a matter of personal taste, cost, convenience, time, resources, skill level, shelf life, day-to-day diet, etc.

Balgair 6y ago

The main impediment is that with a 'proper' Mac'n'Cheese you need to make a roux before adding the cheese in. Roux are somewhat above the skill level of the average cook. It's not super complex (just equal weights of flour and butter), but the timing and the heat are. Undercooked roux are a bit sour,raw, and yeasty, while over cooked roux are burnt. The time between over and undercooked can be down to only a few seconds. It takes a fair few failed roux to get right, hence it is just above the experience levels of most home cooks. Aside: A roux is the basis of many 'creamy' sauces. Learning the skill of roux making is very much worth your time as a home cook. If you still can't manage to get it down, try xantham gum instead. Mix it in with some oil first, then add your liquids. Again, you'll need to experiment with hydration ratios, but it's a much easier and faster method that will also work for cold dishes. It's powerful stuff, maybe a teaspoon per liter of water will thicken quite a bit.

azinman2 6y ago
Many people bake mac & cheese without a roux. In my experience, roux’s aren’t quite as delicate as you’re making it out to be. Cook it enough so that the flour isn’t raw, and it’ll be clear when it’s browning too far. All you gotta do is add your milk and start mixing. It maybe not common knowledge to a novice, but I don’t believe it’s particularly difficult to get right enough for mac & cheese.
phonypc 6y ago
I think this is overstated. In a starchy dish like pasta, I doubt 90% of people would notice a completely uncooked roux. And unless you're absolutely blasting the heat, in which case most food behaves the same, there's no way for a roux to go from undercooked to burnt in a few seconds. It can take an hour to make a dark roux for gumbo.

astura 6y ago

Because those are perishable products and I basically never just happen to have the proper cheese in the proper quantities for macaroni and cheese in the house. If I wanted to make it "from scratch" I'd have to plan ahead; my day-to-day diet has very little cheese in it. Cheese powder, on the other hand, is non-perishable so it can always be kept on hand. It's also MUCH cheaper.

jerf 6y ago

Typically I use the cheese powder as a sauce with milk and butter, and augment with "real cheese". However, cheese powder does in my experience have a stronger flavor than real cheese; if you want that super-cheesy flavor the powder is very good at it. Arguably I'm cutting the cheese powder with the real cheese. Also, a sibling reply mentions roux. I haven't got that option myself because I'm allergic to wheat, so I'm personally stuck with "alternatives" regardless.