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They can test an embryo before implantation which means you don't have to abort so it has much less emotional impact.

by Rule35 6y ago

BrandoElFollito 6y ago
Ah ok, so the test itself is the same, just one is done before implantation, and the other afterwards. Thanks.
- nemo44x 6y ago
  Yeah when the blastocyst is a few days old they can extract a few cells and cryogenically freeze the remaining blastocyst with minimal chance of having ruined it. Those cells are sent to a lab and screened for many chromosome and genetic defects. In fact, ahead of time the IVF clinic will get blood from mom and dad as well as saliva swabs from their parents to build a model on genetic compatibility. For example, the mom and dad may both be carriers for a rare genetic disorder and this can be explicitly tested against each blastocyst to ensure a baby won’t be created expressing that gene which would lead to defect. And of course the cells will be tested to ensure each chromosome is normal and blastocysts that are defective are discarded. This isn’t a perfect science as they are slim chances the cells being tested somehow don’t have the right genetic information (this is called mosaicism) but that’s rare. So overall it gives mom and dad the assurance they are having a normal baby from a biological genetic and chromosome perspective. Because IVF is such a long process fraught with danger it’s something many IVF consumers opt for. Of course, there are ethical and moral concerns regarding this for some people so it’s their choice to not do it or do it and request the blastocysts be preserved and potentially implanted anyways. Now THATS an interesting debate.
  - BrandoElFollito 6y ago
    > Yeah when the blastocyst is a few days old they can extract a few cells and cryogenically freeze the remaining blastocyst with minimal chance of having ruined it. Those cells are sent to a lab and screened for many chromosome and genetic defects. Would that part would be different from in utero tests? (short of the freezing of course) It has been 15 years that we did the tests (on amniotic fluid) so the world must have moved forward by now. > to build a model on genetic compatibility. I guess that this can also be done for "standard" to-be parents. > or do it and request the blastocysts be preserved and potentially implanted anyways. Now THATS an interesting debate. Oh yes - the debate on abort or not abort is already have-a-seat-and-get-popcorn worthy, adding to this a dose of "willingly implant a known defective blastocyst" turns that in to an action movie.
    - nemo44x 6y ago
      I’m not sure on the first question but I imagine that yes, the same types of tests are conducted. As for any to-be parents - yes and I’d recommend it. You may find you both carry a relatively rare recessive gene that would give your offspring a 25% of having a certain disorder. This can guide your decision on if you want to go forward with natural fertilization and risk it (and make the choice after testing the cells of the developing baby) or opt for IVF to prevent the disorder (and all others that are testable). In parents that don’t have infertility problems, IVF is pretty successful. Especially if the mother is still in prime form (under 35 great but under 30 is spectacular) and the father doesn’t have poor sperm count and/or quality. For the last one I err towards it being a personal liberty to decide what life you do and do not bring into the world. But it does get more hairy when you start discussing public support in terms of resources to support the child/family. Then it is everyone’s business imo. But I’d imagine people that can afford IVF don’t rely on government programs to finance their life.
      - nemo44x 6y ago
        I should add - for men with poor count and/or quality there is a product called ICSI which involves the IVF clinic inspecting sperm cells and finding “the best” one and injecting it into the ovum. To me it’s spectacular how involved we can be in the natural selection process due to our brains evolving so much. I can’t wait to see how we further this.
      - BrandoElFollito 6y ago
        > For the last one I err towards it being a personal liberty to decide what life you do and do not bring into the world. But it does get more hairy when you start discussing public support in terms of resources to support the child/family. Then it is everyone’s business imo. But I’d imagine people that can afford IVF don’t rely on government programs to finance their life. It certainly is a personal liberty. I am French, atheist, and I am very much attached to that freedom. Having healthy discussion about this is good as it is an eye opener for all the sides involved. Now, there is the general population part: someone who willingly decides to have a sick child that will cost more to the society must be ready to bear all the costs, including the ones after their death. On the other hand, this should also apply to people who smoke, are overweight etc. and though this choice are also a burden for the society, financially speaking. The last part (money) is not an easy one. The first one (morality) is much easier as everyone is an expert in the subject :)

They can test an embryo before implantation which means you don't have to abort so it has much less emotional impact.

by Rule35 6y ago

They can test an embryo before implantation which means you don't have to abort so it has much less emotional impact.

BrandoElFollito 6y ago

Ah ok, so the test itself is the same, just one is done before implantation, and the other afterwards. Thanks.

nemo44x 6y ago
Yeah when the blastocyst is a few days old they can extract a few cells and cryogenically freeze the remaining blastocyst with minimal chance of having ruined it. Those cells are sent to a lab and screened for many chromosome and genetic defects. In fact, ahead of time the IVF clinic will get blood from mom and dad as well as saliva swabs from their parents to build a model on genetic compatibility. For example, the mom and dad may both be carriers for a rare genetic disorder and this can be explicitly tested against each blastocyst to ensure a baby won’t be created expressing that gene which would lead to defect. And of course the cells will be tested to ensure each chromosome is normal and blastocysts that are defective are discarded. This isn’t a perfect science as they are slim chances the cells being tested somehow don’t have the right genetic information (this is called mosaicism) but that’s rare. So overall it gives mom and dad the assurance they are having a normal baby from a biological genetic and chromosome perspective. Because IVF is such a long process fraught with danger it’s something many IVF consumers opt for. Of course, there are ethical and moral concerns regarding this for some people so it’s their choice to not do it or do it and request the blastocysts be preserved and potentially implanted anyways. Now THATS an interesting debate.
- BrandoElFollito 6y ago
  > Yeah when the blastocyst is a few days old they can extract a few cells and cryogenically freeze the remaining blastocyst with minimal chance of having ruined it. Those cells are sent to a lab and screened for many chromosome and genetic defects. Would that part would be different from in utero tests? (short of the freezing of course) It has been 15 years that we did the tests (on amniotic fluid) so the world must have moved forward by now. > to build a model on genetic compatibility. I guess that this can also be done for "standard" to-be parents. > or do it and request the blastocysts be preserved and potentially implanted anyways. Now THATS an interesting debate. Oh yes - the debate on abort or not abort is already have-a-seat-and-get-popcorn worthy, adding to this a dose of "willingly implant a known defective blastocyst" turns that in to an action movie.
  - nemo44x 6y ago
    I’m not sure on the first question but I imagine that yes, the same types of tests are conducted. As for any to-be parents - yes and I’d recommend it. You may find you both carry a relatively rare recessive gene that would give your offspring a 25% of having a certain disorder. This can guide your decision on if you want to go forward with natural fertilization and risk it (and make the choice after testing the cells of the developing baby) or opt for IVF to prevent the disorder (and all others that are testable). In parents that don’t have infertility problems, IVF is pretty successful. Especially if the mother is still in prime form (under 35 great but under 30 is spectacular) and the father doesn’t have poor sperm count and/or quality. For the last one I err towards it being a personal liberty to decide what life you do and do not bring into the world. But it does get more hairy when you start discussing public support in terms of resources to support the child/family. Then it is everyone’s business imo. But I’d imagine people that can afford IVF don’t rely on government programs to finance their life.
    - nemo44x 6y ago
      I should add - for men with poor count and/or quality there is a product called ICSI which involves the IVF clinic inspecting sperm cells and finding “the best” one and injecting it into the ovum. To me it’s spectacular how involved we can be in the natural selection process due to our brains evolving so much. I can’t wait to see how we further this.
    - BrandoElFollito 6y ago
      > For the last one I err towards it being a personal liberty to decide what life you do and do not bring into the world. But it does get more hairy when you start discussing public support in terms of resources to support the child/family. Then it is everyone’s business imo. But I’d imagine people that can afford IVF don’t rely on government programs to finance their life. It certainly is a personal liberty. I am French, atheist, and I am very much attached to that freedom. Having healthy discussion about this is good as it is an eye opener for all the sides involved. Now, there is the general population part: someone who willingly decides to have a sick child that will cost more to the society must be ready to bear all the costs, including the ones after their death. On the other hand, this should also apply to people who smoke, are overweight etc. and though this choice are also a burden for the society, financially speaking. The last part (money) is not an easy one. The first one (morality) is much easier as everyone is an expert in the subject :)