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I respectfully disagree. I think it is important to wall off the platform and sandbox the environment. This prevents things like stack attacks with walled off m

I respectfully disagree. I think it is important to wall off the platform and sandbox the environment. This prevents things like stack attacks with walled off memory and background processes doing things it should not. With so much personal information on the mobile phone, it'll be a complete nightmare if one of the applications is really a virus that spreads as a background process. Since it can contact your ENTIRE contact list, such a viral infection can crippling. In fact, in the Jailbroken iPhone community there have already been a couple of viruses. But on the other hand, they should open up a couple more APIs, the camera, specifically.

tptacek 18y ago
None of the limitations being discussed with the iPhone have anything to do with whether programs are vulnerable to "stack attacks". The iPhone doesn't even have background processes. And "virus" is just a scary-sounding word for "program that deletes important files on your behalf". Don't run those. I respect the "walled garden" as a business decision; it's Apple's platform, and maximizing its revenue is their prerogative. As a technical safeguard, there's no evidence that it works.
- tomsucks 18y ago
  Here's my top: http://pastie.org/246884 http://pastie.org/246884 MobileSafari, MobileMail, MobilePhone, all running in the background. fairplayd is the fairplay daemon, commcenter manages communications (all of them), springboard is the desktop, lockdownd is the little thing that checks to make sure the phone is activated (and locks it down if not) only the top three apps (bash, top, sshd) aren't there on a vanilla iPhone. Apple's apps will run in the background, but other (app store) apps exit completely when you return to the home screen.
  - tptacek 18y ago
    Sorry, you're right. Apple can do whatever it wants on their phone, as you've pointed out. Evil third party developers can't.
    - tomsucks 18y ago
      Technically, good nda-abiding sdk-using $99-paying developers can't, evil ones that write their apps for jailbroken phones can ;)
- stcredzero 18y ago
  AFAIK, the iPhone does have background processes. Apple just won't let you have at them! Apple could easily write a specialized API that lets you run virtualized background processes. This would be an improvement on the current situation, but it would maintain heightened security.
jonknee 18y ago
That's a valid point, but is the same for Mac OS X. You have even more personal information on your desktop. Thankfully we're not limited to a single source for Mac OS X apps.
dejb 18y ago
From what you are saying you'd think the iphone is the first phone OS capable of running third party apps ever. Other phone OS's have been able to do this for 5 years and many of them haven't needed to restrict users so badly including Windows Mobile, Palm OS and in some cases Symbian.

tptacek 18y ago

None of the limitations being discussed with the iPhone have anything to do with whether programs are vulnerable to "stack attacks". The iPhone doesn't even have background processes. And "virus" is just a scary-sounding word for "program that deletes important files on your behalf". Don't run those. I respect the "walled garden" as a business decision; it's Apple's platform, and maximizing its revenue is their prerogative. As a technical safeguard, there's no evidence that it works.

tomsucks 18y ago
Here's my top: http://pastie.org/246884 http://pastie.org/246884 MobileSafari, MobileMail, MobilePhone, all running in the background. fairplayd is the fairplay daemon, commcenter manages communications (all of them), springboard is the desktop, lockdownd is the little thing that checks to make sure the phone is activated (and locks it down if not) only the top three apps (bash, top, sshd) aren't there on a vanilla iPhone. Apple's apps will run in the background, but other (app store) apps exit completely when you return to the home screen.
- tptacek 18y ago
  Sorry, you're right. Apple can do whatever it wants on their phone, as you've pointed out. Evil third party developers can't.
  - tomsucks 18y ago
    Technically, good nda-abiding sdk-using $99-paying developers can't, evil ones that write their apps for jailbroken phones can ;)
stcredzero 18y ago
AFAIK, the iPhone does have background processes. Apple just won't let you have at them! Apple could easily write a specialized API that lets you run virtualized background processes. This would be an improvement on the current situation, but it would maintain heightened security.

jonknee 18y ago

That's a valid point, but is the same for Mac OS X. You have even more personal information on your desktop. Thankfully we're not limited to a single source for Mac OS X apps.

dejb 18y ago

From what you are saying you'd think the iphone is the first phone OS capable of running third party apps ever. Other phone OS's have been able to do this for 5 years and many of them haven't needed to restrict users so badly including Windows Mobile, Palm OS and in some cases Symbian.