3 ms·

The future I want includes competent journalists being paid and websites that aren’t filled by garbage ads and nagging. Not saying paywalls are nice, but what i

The future I want includes competent journalists being paid and websites that aren’t filled by garbage ads and nagging. Not saying paywalls are nice, but what is the future you want?

dredmorbius 6y ago
Subscriptions rolled into broadband/mobile at $120/yr US net, tiered by local prevailing wealth, and pro-rated based on estimated access seems a good start. That's about what the current publishing sector take is now.
- colinmhayes 6y ago
  I prefer to pay for the services I actually use, not let someone else choose for me.
  - dredmorbius 6y ago
    The pay here is for all you can eat. You're already paying more for this on a per-household basis through advertising, for lower-quality content (and killing off quality), with no say on the endpoint publisher revenue, through ad-supported media. Households with higher income would pay more. Households with low income would have access to all the world's published knowledge. That seems like an exceedingly equitable trade.
- tedunangst 6y ago
  This just triggers more clickbait as they race to soak up estimated access.
  - dredmorbius 6y ago
    Tiered remuneration based on a judged quality metric is one possible approach to this. Another approach would be to open a specified number of journalist / creator slots and fund those to a living level (perhaps in addition to the consumption metric). As with many other complex work-products, very short-cycle quality metrics tend to be little better than noise. I believe Cathy O'Neill's written or spoken on this. Clickbait would result in a low revenue tier. I've fleshed this out in more detail, my proposal is substantially the same as others have proposed, including Phil Hunt (Pirate Party UK) and RMS, whom you may have heard something of recently, as well as mentions-in-passing by Joseph Stiglitz and others. In rough order of significance: A Modest Proposal: Universal Online Media Payment Syndication https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/1uotb3/a_modest_proposal_universal_online_media_payment/ https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/1uotb3/a_modes... Why Information Goods and Markets are a Poor Match https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/2vm2da/why_information_goods_and_markets_are_a_poor_match/ https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/2vm2da/why_inf... Repudiation as the micropayments killer feature (Not) https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/4r683b/repudiation_as_the_micropayments_killer_feature/ https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/4r683b/repudia... Specifying a Universal Online Media Payment Syndication System https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/2h0h81/specifying_a_universal_online_media_payment/ https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/2h0h81/specify... The Medium Is the Message: how the technological and revenue environments shape content https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/278e2o/the_medium_is_the_message_how_the_technological/ https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/278e2o/the_med... Content Syndication: Phil Hunt's Broadband Tax / Content Compensation Fund proposal, and the Rent-Seeking Economy https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/1vknhc/content_syndication_phil_hunts_broadband_tax/ https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/1vknhc/content... Richard Stallman's "Internet Sharing" content syndication proposal (2012) https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/3p0bp6/richard_stallmans_internet_sharing_content/ https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/3p0bp6/richard... What the academic publishing industry calls "theft" the world calls "research": Why Sci-Hub is so popular https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/4p2rwk/what_the_academic_publishing_industry_calls_theft/ https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/4p2rwk/what_th... (References Stiglitz.) Forbes asks: Why do programmers hate advertising so much? https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/24107v/forbes_asks_why_do_programmers_hate_advertising/ https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/24107v/forbes_... Media, Advertising, Sustainability, Externalities, and Impacts: A light reading list https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/7k7l4m/media_advertising_sustainability_externalities/ https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/7k7l4m/media_a...
  - dredmorbius 6y ago
    Thinking some more on this ... ... the notion of a market in which quality tiers are served based on bids based on perceived benefit and costs of provisioning might be one approach. Details naturally remain to be worked out. But in the "clickbait" tier, if a GPT-3 ML/AI would be sufficient to supply a steady stream of memes, with sufficiently low negative social externalities, the profit motive for entering into the niche would remain quite low. In-depth investigative journalism would be bid within a distinct an separate marketplace, sufficient to cover costs of production and maintenance. In broadcast, SLAs can be achieved based on the portion of both spectrum (bandwidth) and time (a day still has only 24 hours, plus or minus the odd leap/skip second(s)), such that targets of specific levels of service could be required. In print it's column-inches that are determinate, as well as circulation. Online media shares some attributes of both, with measurements possible in both personal media time budgets (time/day or time/month spent on given sites or types of media), and in terms of article counts, word counts, above-the-fold visibility, SERP rankings, and ultimately of what Facebook apparently calls "prevalence" (items * views or presentations within the stream). https://nitter.cc/guyro/status/1337493574246535168 https://nitter.cc/guyro/status/1337493574246535168 https://toot.cat/@dredmorbius/105372688403486098 https://toot.cat/@dredmorbius/105372688403486098
- astrange 6y ago
  What's "current"? Journalism is a much worse business than it was 10 years ago and everyone working in it is less qualified as a result, so I think we need to be raising their revenue. Also FT is not a US business.
edoceo 6y ago
By what method should we/you compensate the journalist if not subscription, paywall or ads?
- chrisbaker98 6y ago
  Something involving NFTs, I guess.
- kruxigt 6y ago
  Micro transactions is a model that might be a good alternative to all of those. The idea is that if you agree on paying say 1 dollar you get to access that specific article. There can of course be variations like you pay x to get future access to y number of articles.

The future I want includes competent journalists being paid and websites that aren’t filled by garbage ads and nagging. Not saying paywalls are nice, but what is the future you want?

dredmorbius 6y ago

Subscriptions rolled into broadband/mobile at $120/yr US net, tiered by local prevailing wealth, and pro-rated based on estimated access seems a good start. That's about what the current publishing sector take is now.

colinmhayes 6y ago
I prefer to pay for the services I actually use, not let someone else choose for me.
- dredmorbius 6y ago
  The pay here is for all you can eat. You're already paying more for this on a per-household basis through advertising, for lower-quality content (and killing off quality), with no say on the endpoint publisher revenue, through ad-supported media. Households with higher income would pay more. Households with low income would have access to all the world's published knowledge. That seems like an exceedingly equitable trade.
tedunangst 6y ago
This just triggers more clickbait as they race to soak up estimated access.
- dredmorbius 6y ago
  Tiered remuneration based on a judged quality metric is one possible approach to this. Another approach would be to open a specified number of journalist / creator slots and fund those to a living level (perhaps in addition to the consumption metric). As with many other complex work-products, very short-cycle quality metrics tend to be little better than noise. I believe Cathy O'Neill's written or spoken on this. Clickbait would result in a low revenue tier. I've fleshed this out in more detail, my proposal is substantially the same as others have proposed, including Phil Hunt (Pirate Party UK) and RMS, whom you may have heard something of recently, as well as mentions-in-passing by Joseph Stiglitz and others. In rough order of significance: A Modest Proposal: Universal Online Media Payment Syndication https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/1uotb3/a_modest_proposal_universal_online_media_payment/ https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/1uotb3/a_modes... Why Information Goods and Markets are a Poor Match https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/2vm2da/why_information_goods_and_markets_are_a_poor_match/ https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/2vm2da/why_inf... Repudiation as the micropayments killer feature (Not) https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/4r683b/repudiation_as_the_micropayments_killer_feature/ https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/4r683b/repudia... Specifying a Universal Online Media Payment Syndication System https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/2h0h81/specifying_a_universal_online_media_payment/ https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/2h0h81/specify... The Medium Is the Message: how the technological and revenue environments shape content https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/278e2o/the_medium_is_the_message_how_the_technological/ https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/278e2o/the_med... Content Syndication: Phil Hunt's Broadband Tax / Content Compensation Fund proposal, and the Rent-Seeking Economy https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/1vknhc/content_syndication_phil_hunts_broadband_tax/ https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/1vknhc/content... Richard Stallman's "Internet Sharing" content syndication proposal (2012) https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/3p0bp6/richard_stallmans_internet_sharing_content/ https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/3p0bp6/richard... What the academic publishing industry calls "theft" the world calls "research": Why Sci-Hub is so popular https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/4p2rwk/what_the_academic_publishing_industry_calls_theft/ https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/4p2rwk/what_th... (References Stiglitz.) Forbes asks: Why do programmers hate advertising so much? https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/24107v/forbes_asks_why_do_programmers_hate_advertising/ https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/24107v/forbes_... Media, Advertising, Sustainability, Externalities, and Impacts: A light reading list https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/7k7l4m/media_advertising_sustainability_externalities/ https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/7k7l4m/media_a...
- dredmorbius 6y ago
  Thinking some more on this ... ... the notion of a market in which quality tiers are served based on bids based on perceived benefit and costs of provisioning might be one approach. Details naturally remain to be worked out. But in the "clickbait" tier, if a GPT-3 ML/AI would be sufficient to supply a steady stream of memes, with sufficiently low negative social externalities, the profit motive for entering into the niche would remain quite low. In-depth investigative journalism would be bid within a distinct an separate marketplace, sufficient to cover costs of production and maintenance. In broadcast, SLAs can be achieved based on the portion of both spectrum (bandwidth) and time (a day still has only 24 hours, plus or minus the odd leap/skip second(s)), such that targets of specific levels of service could be required. In print it's column-inches that are determinate, as well as circulation. Online media shares some attributes of both, with measurements possible in both personal media time budgets (time/day or time/month spent on given sites or types of media), and in terms of article counts, word counts, above-the-fold visibility, SERP rankings, and ultimately of what Facebook apparently calls "prevalence" (items * views or presentations within the stream). https://nitter.cc/guyro/status/1337493574246535168 https://nitter.cc/guyro/status/1337493574246535168 https://toot.cat/@dredmorbius/105372688403486098 https://toot.cat/@dredmorbius/105372688403486098
astrange 6y ago
What's "current"? Journalism is a much worse business than it was 10 years ago and everyone working in it is less qualified as a result, so I think we need to be raising their revenue. Also FT is not a US business.

edoceo 6y ago

By what method should we/you compensate the journalist if not subscription, paywall or ads?

chrisbaker98 6y ago
Something involving NFTs, I guess.
kruxigt 6y ago
Micro transactions is a model that might be a good alternative to all of those. The idea is that if you agree on paying say 1 dollar you get to access that specific article. There can of course be variations like you pay x to get future access to y number of articles.