5 ms·

If you keep posting paywalled articles paywalls will persist. If you ignore them all they will cease to be relevant and they will die. Vote with your attention

If you keep posting paywalled articles paywalls will persist. If you ignore them all they will cease to be relevant and they will die. Vote with your attention for the future you want.

dageshi 6y ago
So you're saying we should avoid paywalled content, irrespective of how good it is and encourage ad supported content instead because those are the only two real alternatives. And no, to pre-empt it the mythical "micropayments" solution isn't going to replace either.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
jefft255 6y ago
The future I want includes competent journalists being paid and websites that aren’t filled by garbage ads and nagging. Not saying paywalls are nice, but what is the future you want?
- dredmorbius 6y ago
  Subscriptions rolled into broadband/mobile at $120/yr US net, tiered by local prevailing wealth, and pro-rated based on estimated access seems a good start. That's about what the current publishing sector take is now.
  - colinmhayes 6y ago
    I prefer to pay for the services I actually use, not let someone else choose for me.
    - dredmorbius 6y ago
      The pay here is for all you can eat. You're already paying more for this on a per-household basis through advertising, for lower-quality content (and killing off quality), with no say on the endpoint publisher revenue, through ad-supported media. Households with higher income would pay more. Households with low income would have access to all the world's published knowledge. That seems like an exceedingly equitable trade.
  - tedunangst 6y ago
    This just triggers more clickbait as they race to soak up estimated access.
    - dredmorbius 6y ago
      Tiered remuneration based on a judged quality metric is one possible approach to this. Another approach would be to open a specified number of journalist / creator slots and fund those to a living level (perhaps in addition to the consumption metric). As with many other complex work-products, very short-cycle quality metrics tend to be little better than noise. I believe Cathy O'Neill's written or spoken on this. Clickbait would result in a low revenue tier. I've fleshed this out in more detail, my proposal is substantially the same as others have proposed, including Phil Hunt (Pirate Party UK) and RMS, whom you may have heard something of recently, as well as mentions-in-passing by Joseph Stiglitz and others. In rough order of significance: A Modest Proposal: Universal Online Media Payment Syndication https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/1uotb3/a_modest_proposal_universal_online_media_payment/ https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/1uotb3/a_modes... Why Information Goods and Markets are a Poor Match https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/2vm2da/why_information_goods_and_markets_are_a_poor_match/ https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/2vm2da/why_inf... Repudiation as the micropayments killer feature (Not) https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/4r683b/repudiation_as_the_micropayments_killer_feature/ https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/4r683b/repudia... Specifying a Universal Online Media Payment Syndication System https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/2h0h81/specifying_a_universal_online_media_payment/ https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/2h0h81/specify... The Medium Is the Message: how the technological and revenue environments shape content https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/278e2o/the_medium_is_the_message_how_the_technological/ https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/278e2o/the_med... Content Syndication: Phil Hunt's Broadband Tax / Content Compensation Fund proposal, and the Rent-Seeking Economy https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/1vknhc/content_syndication_phil_hunts_broadband_tax/ https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/1vknhc/content... Richard Stallman's "Internet Sharing" content syndication proposal (2012) https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/3p0bp6/richard_stallmans_internet_sharing_content/ https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/3p0bp6/richard... What the academic publishing industry calls "theft" the world calls "research": Why Sci-Hub is so popular https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/4p2rwk/what_the_academic_publishing_industry_calls_theft/ https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/4p2rwk/what_th... (References Stiglitz.) Forbes asks: Why do programmers hate advertising so much? https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/24107v/forbes_asks_why_do_programmers_hate_advertising/ https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/24107v/forbes_... Media, Advertising, Sustainability, Externalities, and Impacts: A light reading list https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/7k7l4m/media_advertising_sustainability_externalities/ https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/7k7l4m/media_a...
  - astrange 6y ago
    What's "current"? Journalism is a much worse business than it was 10 years ago and everyone working in it is less qualified as a result, so I think we need to be raising their revenue. Also FT is not a US business.
- edoceo 6y ago
  By what method should we/you compensate the journalist if not subscription, paywall or ads?
  - chrisbaker98 6y ago
    Something involving NFTs, I guess.
  - kruxigt 6y ago
    Micro transactions is a model that might be a good alternative to all of those. The idea is that if you agree on paying say 1 dollar you get to access that specific article. There can of course be variations like you pay x to get future access to y number of articles.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
mprev 6y ago
If we insist on not paying for journalism then what little quality journalism we have left will die. Vote with your wallet if you want a future that isn’t just listicles and manufactured outrage.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
josefresco 6y ago
A subscription to FT.com costs $372 for 1 year.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- hu3 6y ago
  That's.... a lot.
  - astrange 6y ago
    It's only 3.72 Substacks.
    - hu3 6y ago
      I imagine the cost of subscribing to all major news portals that show up on HN would amount to thousands $ per year.
      - josefresco 6y ago
        I've looked up only two (out of pure curiosity), and the combined total is already over $500/year. Economist: $189, FT: $372
- irrational 6y ago
  I’m surprised they didn’t go with $365 so they could say it is $1/day.
  - Maursault 6y ago
    > I’m surprised they didn’t go with $365 so they could say it is $1/day. You mean $365.25, as there are 365.25 days in a year. ;)
simonh 6y ago
Alternatively if more people paid for valuable services by skilled professionals that cost a lot to provide, the service would be better funded and/or could be cheaper for everyone.
chrisbaker98 6y ago
Stick the link into archive.is and paywalls are trivial to circumvent.
bradj 6y ago
The FT is well worth the cost if you are a daily reader of their reporting.

If you keep posting paywalled articles paywalls will persist. If you ignore them all they will cease to be relevant and they will die. Vote with your attention for the future you want.

dageshi 6y ago

So you're saying we should avoid paywalled content, irrespective of how good it is and encourage ad supported content instead because those are the only two real alternatives. And no, to pre-empt it the mythical "micropayments" solution isn't going to replace either.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

jefft255 6y ago

The future I want includes competent journalists being paid and websites that aren’t filled by garbage ads and nagging. Not saying paywalls are nice, but what is the future you want?

dredmorbius 6y ago
Subscriptions rolled into broadband/mobile at $120/yr US net, tiered by local prevailing wealth, and pro-rated based on estimated access seems a good start. That's about what the current publishing sector take is now.
- colinmhayes 6y ago
  I prefer to pay for the services I actually use, not let someone else choose for me.
  - dredmorbius 6y ago
    The pay here is for all you can eat. You're already paying more for this on a per-household basis through advertising, for lower-quality content (and killing off quality), with no say on the endpoint publisher revenue, through ad-supported media. Households with higher income would pay more. Households with low income would have access to all the world's published knowledge. That seems like an exceedingly equitable trade.
- tedunangst 6y ago
  This just triggers more clickbait as they race to soak up estimated access.
  - dredmorbius 6y ago
    Tiered remuneration based on a judged quality metric is one possible approach to this. Another approach would be to open a specified number of journalist / creator slots and fund those to a living level (perhaps in addition to the consumption metric). As with many other complex work-products, very short-cycle quality metrics tend to be little better than noise. I believe Cathy O'Neill's written or spoken on this. Clickbait would result in a low revenue tier. I've fleshed this out in more detail, my proposal is substantially the same as others have proposed, including Phil Hunt (Pirate Party UK) and RMS, whom you may have heard something of recently, as well as mentions-in-passing by Joseph Stiglitz and others. In rough order of significance: A Modest Proposal: Universal Online Media Payment Syndication https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/1uotb3/a_modest_proposal_universal_online_media_payment/ https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/1uotb3/a_modes... Why Information Goods and Markets are a Poor Match https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/2vm2da/why_information_goods_and_markets_are_a_poor_match/ https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/2vm2da/why_inf... Repudiation as the micropayments killer feature (Not) https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/4r683b/repudiation_as_the_micropayments_killer_feature/ https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/4r683b/repudia... Specifying a Universal Online Media Payment Syndication System https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/2h0h81/specifying_a_universal_online_media_payment/ https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/2h0h81/specify... The Medium Is the Message: how the technological and revenue environments shape content https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/278e2o/the_medium_is_the_message_how_the_technological/ https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/278e2o/the_med... Content Syndication: Phil Hunt's Broadband Tax / Content Compensation Fund proposal, and the Rent-Seeking Economy https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/1vknhc/content_syndication_phil_hunts_broadband_tax/ https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/1vknhc/content... Richard Stallman's "Internet Sharing" content syndication proposal (2012) https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/3p0bp6/richard_stallmans_internet_sharing_content/ https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/3p0bp6/richard... What the academic publishing industry calls "theft" the world calls "research": Why Sci-Hub is so popular https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/4p2rwk/what_the_academic_publishing_industry_calls_theft/ https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/4p2rwk/what_th... (References Stiglitz.) Forbes asks: Why do programmers hate advertising so much? https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/24107v/forbes_asks_why_do_programmers_hate_advertising/ https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/24107v/forbes_... Media, Advertising, Sustainability, Externalities, and Impacts: A light reading list https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/7k7l4m/media_advertising_sustainability_externalities/ https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/7k7l4m/media_a...
- astrange 6y ago
  What's "current"? Journalism is a much worse business than it was 10 years ago and everyone working in it is less qualified as a result, so I think we need to be raising their revenue. Also FT is not a US business.
edoceo 6y ago
By what method should we/you compensate the journalist if not subscription, paywall or ads?
- chrisbaker98 6y ago
  Something involving NFTs, I guess.
- kruxigt 6y ago
  Micro transactions is a model that might be a good alternative to all of those. The idea is that if you agree on paying say 1 dollar you get to access that specific article. There can of course be variations like you pay x to get future access to y number of articles.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

mprev 6y ago

If we insist on not paying for journalism then what little quality journalism we have left will die. Vote with your wallet if you want a future that isn’t just listicles and manufactured outrage.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

josefresco 6y ago

A subscription to FT.com costs $372 for 1 year.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
hu3 6y ago
That's.... a lot.
- astrange 6y ago
  It's only 3.72 Substacks.
  - hu3 6y ago
    I imagine the cost of subscribing to all major news portals that show up on HN would amount to thousands $ per year.
    - josefresco 6y ago
      I've looked up only two (out of pure curiosity), and the combined total is already over $500/year. Economist: $189, FT: $372
irrational 6y ago
I’m surprised they didn’t go with $365 so they could say it is $1/day.
- Maursault 6y ago
  > I’m surprised they didn’t go with $365 so they could say it is $1/day. You mean $365.25, as there are 365.25 days in a year. ;)

simonh 6y ago

Alternatively if more people paid for valuable services by skilled professionals that cost a lot to provide, the service would be better funded and/or could be cheaper for everyone.

chrisbaker98 6y ago

Stick the link into archive.is and paywalls are trivial to circumvent.

bradj 6y ago

The FT is well worth the cost if you are a daily reader of their reporting.