5 ms·

I remember when the boxes had bumper stickers in them and my health food store customers complained about potential toxicity. Good times.

jessaustin 6y ago
Is mac and cheese really health food?
- rosywoozlechan 6y ago
  It's food. It's nutrition. Food isn't medicine. All food is healthy if you eat it in reasonable amounts and you make sure to get all the nutrients you need. If you're consuming an overabundance of carbohydrates then you're not eating healthy, but that's not a problem with the food, it's a problem with your behavior and food choices.
  - Mediterraneo10 6y ago
    > All food is healthy if you eat it in reasonable amounts That is true if one is speaking about the basic categories like "fats/carbs/sugars" etc., but the concern is really about certain additives in processed foods. When ingesting a carcinogen, sure it is repeated exposure that raises one’s odds of developing cancer, but all it might really take is just a single time. That is why additives are sometimes banned from country to country: because there might not even be a "reasonable amount" greater than zero.
  - hombre_fatal 6y ago
    This is exactly what Coca-Cola wants us to believe about food. e.g. > “Beating obesity will take action by all of us, based on one simple common-sense fact: All calories count, no matter where they come from, including Coca-Cola and everything else with calories,” the female announcer said. “And if you eat and drink more calories than you burn off, you’ll gain weight.” There's obviously no difference between the foods and everything that compromises us is just due to personal failure.
    - rosywoozlechan 6y ago
      What they said is correct. If you eat more than you burn, you gain weight. That's how it works. If you believe different you're unlikely to maintain a healthy weight. Dieting and maintaining a healthy weight is all about energy balance and personal behavior. I've lost weight and kept it off for four years now.
    - samatman 6y ago
      I'm with Coca-Cola on this one, at least as it relates to their flagship product. I drink less than one coke a month. I get the sugar kind, because I prefer the mouth feel, but even with corn syrup, there is just no way this has any negative health consequences for me. This is part of a very general problem, one without obvious solutions: anything which feels good, or is fun, will have people who harm themselves by using it too much. Mitigating this (it can't be solved) is a boring, slow, social process. Soda vending machines probably shouldn't be in schools. Maybe fast food restaurants should stop bundling a soda for basically-free? But it is basically free, pennies per cup, and I'm wary of anything which forces a huge corporation to not pass that on to the consumer. I've seen no evidence that soda taxes are effective, it strikes me as just a regressive tax. So we're left with the long slog of convincing people that it's a bad idea to drink a soda with every meal. Which appears to be working... slowly. When I gain excess weight, it's bread. And not the low-status peasant bread with dough conditioners and added sugar: no I get the fancy sourdough bread, or bagels, and just eat more of it than I really should. There is only one person who can prevent this, and he does my grocery shopping.
      - lupire 6y ago
        Thr point is that if Coke's customers tools Coke's advice, Coke would be a far less profitable business. They are bluffing and they know that.
    - NikolaeVarius 6y ago
      So what they're saying is true?
- tjr 6y ago
  They at least offer some "healthier" renditions of it. But overall, I reckon, no. I'd still rather eat Annie's than Kraft.
- tyingq 6y ago
  There seems to be a pretty big niche of "like some additive-heavy food you like, but with less additives". The article reads like this product was at least at one time just pasta, milk, butter, and actual cheese (albeit all dried/powdered).
  - jfengel 6y ago
    Yeah... now their ingredients are (from their web site): Organic Pasta (Organic Wheat Flour), Whey, Cultured Cream, Nonfat Milk, Salt, Butter (Pasteurized Cream, Salt), Dried Cheddar Cheese (Cultured Pasteurized Milk, Salt, Non-Animal Enzymes), Corn Starch, Citric Acid, Annatto Extract (For Color), Lactic Acid, Sunflower Lecithin, Sodium Phosphate, Silicon Dioxide (For Anticaking). None of this bothers me, but the declaration "No artificial flavors, synthetic colors, or synthetic preservatives" seems out of place with those last six ingredients. It's technically true, but that's a context where you sorta want more than merely "technically true". I don't think any of them are harmful... but then, neither are the artificial and synthetic versions they're replacing. They don't strike me as all that different from the Kraft ones: enriched macaroni (wheat flour, durum flour, niacin, ferrous sulfate [iron], thiamin mononitrate [vitamin b1], riboflavin [vitamin b2], folic acid); cheese sauce mix (whey, milkfat, milk protein concentrate, salt, sodium triphosphate, contains less than 2% of citric acid, lactic acid, sodium phosphate, calcium phosphate, with paprika, turmeric, and annatto added for color, enzymes, cheese culture).
    - tyingq 6y ago
      I agree. The upside for Annie's would be that cheese is higher on the list, meaning there's more actual cheese. Otherwise they do seem similar.
      - jfengel 6y ago
        I'm a little disappointed that only the wheat is organic. I'm unclear on the real balance of benefits of organic-ness for vegetable crops -- maybe it's better for the planet, maybe it's not. I doubt it's nutritionally different. I do prefer organic animal ingredients, in the hopes that the animals themselves are treated slightly better if they have to avoid diseases rather than be given antibiotics. Unfortunately, I lack the resources to verify that (which is why I have cut way back on my animal product consumption).
- mushbino 6y ago
  Annie's was more "in the spirit" of the healthfood movement that started in the late 60's. It was a small company using mostly natural ingredients and it was popular in most healthfood stores, if anyone remembers those.
  - zikzak 6y ago
    I was finicky as a kid and was not catered to so I lived on pb on whole wheat, raisins, carrots, and apples (I are other foods but didn't enjoy it unless it was total junk - very rare in our house). At some point (mid-80s) my mother decided we would switch from Kraft to the peanut butter you would get in bulk at these stores. So yes, I remember them. :)
- b450 6y ago
  Stir in a bunch of frozen peas. It's a nice complement and you get to tell yourself you're getting some veg.
  - bluedino 6y ago
    And tuna, or bacon
  - deathanatos 6y ago
    We'll do that. Sometimes also ham, if we have leftover ham from something & need to make use of it somehow before it rots.
- pmiller2 6y ago
  There was a time when "health food" mostly just meant "organic."
  - Mediterraneo10 6y ago
    Not really. The macrobiotic fad that was a major part of the "health food" movement in the 1960s and 1970s might have emphasized brown rice and vegetables, but those were usually sourced from non-organic industrial farming. It wasn’t until some time later that the organic movement itself took off and gained attention from health-conscious consumers.
rurp 6y ago
I worked at a niche health food grocery store many years ago that got a fair share of weird customers. The store introduced checkout scanners while I was there; previously the employee at the register would simply type in the price of each item. Most customers didn't care but a very vocal minority was outraged about how toxic and dangerous the little scanner lights were.

jessaustin 6y ago

Is mac and cheese really health food?

rosywoozlechan 6y ago
It's food. It's nutrition. Food isn't medicine. All food is healthy if you eat it in reasonable amounts and you make sure to get all the nutrients you need. If you're consuming an overabundance of carbohydrates then you're not eating healthy, but that's not a problem with the food, it's a problem with your behavior and food choices.
- Mediterraneo10 6y ago
  > All food is healthy if you eat it in reasonable amounts That is true if one is speaking about the basic categories like "fats/carbs/sugars" etc., but the concern is really about certain additives in processed foods. When ingesting a carcinogen, sure it is repeated exposure that raises one’s odds of developing cancer, but all it might really take is just a single time. That is why additives are sometimes banned from country to country: because there might not even be a "reasonable amount" greater than zero.
- hombre_fatal 6y ago
  This is exactly what Coca-Cola wants us to believe about food. e.g. > “Beating obesity will take action by all of us, based on one simple common-sense fact: All calories count, no matter where they come from, including Coca-Cola and everything else with calories,” the female announcer said. “And if you eat and drink more calories than you burn off, you’ll gain weight.” There's obviously no difference between the foods and everything that compromises us is just due to personal failure.
  - rosywoozlechan 6y ago
    What they said is correct. If you eat more than you burn, you gain weight. That's how it works. If you believe different you're unlikely to maintain a healthy weight. Dieting and maintaining a healthy weight is all about energy balance and personal behavior. I've lost weight and kept it off for four years now.
  - samatman 6y ago
    I'm with Coca-Cola on this one, at least as it relates to their flagship product. I drink less than one coke a month. I get the sugar kind, because I prefer the mouth feel, but even with corn syrup, there is just no way this has any negative health consequences for me. This is part of a very general problem, one without obvious solutions: anything which feels good, or is fun, will have people who harm themselves by using it too much. Mitigating this (it can't be solved) is a boring, slow, social process. Soda vending machines probably shouldn't be in schools. Maybe fast food restaurants should stop bundling a soda for basically-free? But it is basically free, pennies per cup, and I'm wary of anything which forces a huge corporation to not pass that on to the consumer. I've seen no evidence that soda taxes are effective, it strikes me as just a regressive tax. So we're left with the long slog of convincing people that it's a bad idea to drink a soda with every meal. Which appears to be working... slowly. When I gain excess weight, it's bread. And not the low-status peasant bread with dough conditioners and added sugar: no I get the fancy sourdough bread, or bagels, and just eat more of it than I really should. There is only one person who can prevent this, and he does my grocery shopping.
    - lupire 6y ago
      Thr point is that if Coke's customers tools Coke's advice, Coke would be a far less profitable business. They are bluffing and they know that.
  - NikolaeVarius 6y ago
    So what they're saying is true?
tjr 6y ago
They at least offer some "healthier" renditions of it. But overall, I reckon, no. I'd still rather eat Annie's than Kraft.
tyingq 6y ago
There seems to be a pretty big niche of "like some additive-heavy food you like, but with less additives". The article reads like this product was at least at one time just pasta, milk, butter, and actual cheese (albeit all dried/powdered).
- jfengel 6y ago
  Yeah... now their ingredients are (from their web site): Organic Pasta (Organic Wheat Flour), Whey, Cultured Cream, Nonfat Milk, Salt, Butter (Pasteurized Cream, Salt), Dried Cheddar Cheese (Cultured Pasteurized Milk, Salt, Non-Animal Enzymes), Corn Starch, Citric Acid, Annatto Extract (For Color), Lactic Acid, Sunflower Lecithin, Sodium Phosphate, Silicon Dioxide (For Anticaking). None of this bothers me, but the declaration "No artificial flavors, synthetic colors, or synthetic preservatives" seems out of place with those last six ingredients. It's technically true, but that's a context where you sorta want more than merely "technically true". I don't think any of them are harmful... but then, neither are the artificial and synthetic versions they're replacing. They don't strike me as all that different from the Kraft ones: enriched macaroni (wheat flour, durum flour, niacin, ferrous sulfate [iron], thiamin mononitrate [vitamin b1], riboflavin [vitamin b2], folic acid); cheese sauce mix (whey, milkfat, milk protein concentrate, salt, sodium triphosphate, contains less than 2% of citric acid, lactic acid, sodium phosphate, calcium phosphate, with paprika, turmeric, and annatto added for color, enzymes, cheese culture).
  - tyingq 6y ago
    I agree. The upside for Annie's would be that cheese is higher on the list, meaning there's more actual cheese. Otherwise they do seem similar.
    - jfengel 6y ago
      I'm a little disappointed that only the wheat is organic. I'm unclear on the real balance of benefits of organic-ness for vegetable crops -- maybe it's better for the planet, maybe it's not. I doubt it's nutritionally different. I do prefer organic animal ingredients, in the hopes that the animals themselves are treated slightly better if they have to avoid diseases rather than be given antibiotics. Unfortunately, I lack the resources to verify that (which is why I have cut way back on my animal product consumption).
mushbino 6y ago
Annie's was more "in the spirit" of the healthfood movement that started in the late 60's. It was a small company using mostly natural ingredients and it was popular in most healthfood stores, if anyone remembers those.
- zikzak 6y ago
  I was finicky as a kid and was not catered to so I lived on pb on whole wheat, raisins, carrots, and apples (I are other foods but didn't enjoy it unless it was total junk - very rare in our house). At some point (mid-80s) my mother decided we would switch from Kraft to the peanut butter you would get in bulk at these stores. So yes, I remember them. :)
b450 6y ago
Stir in a bunch of frozen peas. It's a nice complement and you get to tell yourself you're getting some veg.
- bluedino 6y ago
  And tuna, or bacon
- deathanatos 6y ago
  We'll do that. Sometimes also ham, if we have leftover ham from something & need to make use of it somehow before it rots.
pmiller2 6y ago
There was a time when "health food" mostly just meant "organic."
- Mediterraneo10 6y ago
  Not really. The macrobiotic fad that was a major part of the "health food" movement in the 1960s and 1970s might have emphasized brown rice and vegetables, but those were usually sourced from non-organic industrial farming. It wasn’t until some time later that the organic movement itself took off and gained attention from health-conscious consumers.

rurp 6y ago

I worked at a niche health food grocery store many years ago that got a fair share of weird customers. The store introduced checkout scanners while I was there; previously the employee at the register would simply type in the price of each item. Most customers didn't care but a very vocal minority was outraged about how toxic and dangerous the little scanner lights were.