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I find this entire comment dubious. "the true openness of Android" Which part of the 'true openness' of Android killed Samsung's deal with Skyhook? Was it th

by Steko 15y ago

I find this entire comment dubious. "the true openness of Android" Which part of the 'true openness' of Android killed Samsung's deal with Skyhook? Was it the part when Android boss Andy Rubin said Samsung couldn't ship if they used Skyhook? edit: confused "stop ship" of Motorola with Samsung. Same idea for both deals though. Don't get me wrong Android much more open then iOS but it's farm from the promised land google fanboys claim it is. "Apple-grade hardware, and keeping it affordable.." In case you didn't notice, Apple's iPad has been somewhat competitive on price and phones too. Apple and HTC are both more profitable unitwise then Samsung, I don't know where you get off saying "no one else can compete at this level" Your Software Advantage is "cemented sales among several thousand android devs/enthusiasts." Is that seriously their software advantage? I think Apple, Microsoft and other companies that actually sell software by the billions might take issue with Samsung having an advantage here. Your Hardware Advantage is that they make their own chips. Which are apparently so awesome they're running NVIDIA chips in their flagship tablet. Their screens are excellent but there is plenty of competition. Google "best smartphone display" and a bunch of iphone 4 links pop up.

nl 15y ago
Which part of the 'true openness' of Android killed Samsung's deal with Skyhook? No - that was great PR on behalf of Skyhook, but don't fall for it. Google had no problem with Samsung (or Motorola) shipping Skyhook. The problem was that Skyhook demanded exclusive access to the WiFi access point data (ie, if they shipped Skyhook they couldn't let Google get the same data). Among those other issues was the provision limiting data collection to Skyhook. Motorola asked Skyhook to waive that restriction, so as to enable Motorola to comply with its obligations to Google with respect to GMS. Skyhook refused to do so, proposing instead that Motorola disable the data collection functions of GMS on its devices, which Skyhook contended would not affect performance of other functions of GMS. Motorola responded that it could not proceed in that manner without violating its obligations to Google and its carriers, and that it was therefore absolved of its obligations under the Skyhook contract. [1] To quote Wikipedia: In December 2010 a judge denied Skyhook's motion for preliminary injunction, saying that Google had not closed off the possibility of accepting a revised version of Skyhook's XPS service, and that Motorola had terminated their contract with Skyhook because Skyhook wanted to disable Google's location data collection functions on Motorola's devices, which would have violated Motorola's obligations to Google and its carriers. [2] [1] http://www.socialaw.com/slip.htm?cid=20416&sid=121 http://www.socialaw.com/slip.htm?cid=20416&sid=121 [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_(operating_system)#Licensing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_(operating_system)#Lice...
- Steko 15y ago
  "Google had no problem with Samsung (or Motorola) shipping Skyhook." You can put as many footnotes as you like, no one will take you seriously if you make claims like this.
  - nl 15y ago
    no one will take you seriously if you make claims like this Why? Google has a huge problem with missing out on the location data (ie, Skyhook having an exclusive deal). But Google very plainly doesn't have a problem with other people getting that data as well. There are numerous apps in the Android Market that do similar things, and many manufactures ship apps that dial home with location data (eg, anything that includes ads).
    - Steko 15y ago
      "Why?" Because of the numerous direct quotes from internal Google emails talking about what a disaster it would be and how they quickly sabotaged the skyhook deals with their compatibility club. It's impossible even on a cursory read of what happened to takeaway that Google didn't have a problem with handset makers shipping Skyhook.
      - nl 15y ago
        Read those emails again. They talk about what a disaster it would be for Google to miss out on the data, not that it would be bad for Skyhook to get the data. If you have "numerous direct quotes" then please provide them. In their absence I'd direct you to the footnotes I provided earlier. (Also, I'd note that the quote compatibility club was from an email referring to shipping LogMeIn, not Skyhook, although Skyhook included in their case documents)
        Steko 15y ago
        Quotes aren't hard to find. "This feels like a disaster :(" "I'll setup sometime this week so we can figure out a good battle plan" "That would be awful for Google" "I cannot stress how important Google’s Wi-Fi location database is to our Android and mobile product strategy" "It's sad to see"
doublerebel 15y ago
The level I'm speaking of is open-source involvement, with great smartphone hardware, world-compatible, at an affordable price. It is difficult to find a phone with two of those qualities, much less all four. My first hardware advantage was that they make Apple's chips, learn from Apple, and they save by letting Apple take much of the R&D cost. Apple is concerned about this and will likely be taking their chip production elsewhere. [1] Let's be realistic: Apple hardware is always more expensive. I'm not talking single-unit profit, Apple is well-known for their high markups. I'm talking overall market dominance. The Galaxy S II is already outselling the iPhone 4 in the UK. [2] The preorders in Korea for the Galaxy S II are much higher than the iPhone 4 release. [3] The first Galaxy S is outselling the iPhone 4 in Japan! [4] Software sales are not the software advantage, involving quality devs from the community is the advantage. Samsung doesn't need to spend as much on marketing and software dev because the community is already helping them. Just look at the ridiculous amount of free press that one move has given them, and the CM port isn't even to beta yet! [5] My second hardware advantage is absolutely their AMOLED tech. They are by far the leaders in OLED, Sony is the only other major player and they are looking at combining with Toshiba's LCD division in order to keep up. [6] If you are a consumer who prefers an OLED smartphone (as I do), the Galaxy S is the only choice. Again, Samsung manufacturers their own screens, simplifying the process. Googling 'best smartphone display' does not reflect any advantage besides Apple's giant marketing machine. If you have evidence to the contrary, I'd love to read it! But I think Samsung is the clear winner. [1] http://www.macstories.net/news/apple-to-outsource-a4-and-a5-production-ipad-2-with-enhanced-a4/ http://www.macstories.net/news/apple-to-outsource-a4-and-a5-... [2] http://www.mynextfone.co.uk/news/article/samsung-galaxy-s-ii-tops-iphone-4-sales-in-uk- http://www.mynextfone.co.uk/news/article/samsung-galaxy-s-ii... [3] http://venturebeat.com/2011/05/03/galaxy-s-ii-beats-iphone-4/ http://venturebeat.com/2011/05/03/galaxy-s-ii-beats-iphone-4... [4] http://www.redmondpie.com/samsung-galaxy-s-outsells-iphone-4-in-japan-for-q1-2011/ http://www.redmondpie.com/samsung-galaxy-s-outsells-iphone-4... [5] http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=galaxy+s+ii+cyanogenmod http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&#3... [6] http://www.crunchgear.com/2011/06/08/sony-and-toshiba-to-merge-oled-and-lcd-businesses/ http://www.crunchgear.com/2011/06/08/sony-and-toshiba-to-mer...

by Steko 15y ago

nl 15y ago

Which part of the 'true openness' of Android killed Samsung's deal with Skyhook? No - that was great PR on behalf of Skyhook, but don't fall for it. Google had no problem with Samsung (or Motorola) shipping Skyhook. The problem was that Skyhook demanded exclusive access to the WiFi access point data (ie, if they shipped Skyhook they couldn't let Google get the same data). Among those other issues was the provision limiting data collection to Skyhook. Motorola asked Skyhook to waive that restriction, so as to enable Motorola to comply with its obligations to Google with respect to GMS. Skyhook refused to do so, proposing instead that Motorola disable the data collection functions of GMS on its devices, which Skyhook contended would not affect performance of other functions of GMS. Motorola responded that it could not proceed in that manner without violating its obligations to Google and its carriers, and that it was therefore absolved of its obligations under the Skyhook contract. [1] To quote Wikipedia: In December 2010 a judge denied Skyhook's motion for preliminary injunction, saying that Google had not closed off the possibility of accepting a revised version of Skyhook's XPS service, and that Motorola had terminated their contract with Skyhook because Skyhook wanted to disable Google's location data collection functions on Motorola's devices, which would have violated Motorola's obligations to Google and its carriers. [2] [1] http://www.socialaw.com/slip.htm?cid=20416&sid=121 http://www.socialaw.com/slip.htm?cid=20416&sid=121 [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_(operating_system)#Licensing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_(operating_system)#Lice...

Steko 15y ago
"Google had no problem with Samsung (or Motorola) shipping Skyhook." You can put as many footnotes as you like, no one will take you seriously if you make claims like this.
- nl 15y ago
  no one will take you seriously if you make claims like this Why? Google has a huge problem with missing out on the location data (ie, Skyhook having an exclusive deal). But Google very plainly doesn't have a problem with other people getting that data as well. There are numerous apps in the Android Market that do similar things, and many manufactures ship apps that dial home with location data (eg, anything that includes ads).
  - Steko 15y ago
    "Why?" Because of the numerous direct quotes from internal Google emails talking about what a disaster it would be and how they quickly sabotaged the skyhook deals with their compatibility club. It's impossible even on a cursory read of what happened to takeaway that Google didn't have a problem with handset makers shipping Skyhook.
    - nl 15y ago
      Read those emails again. They talk about what a disaster it would be for Google to miss out on the data, not that it would be bad for Skyhook to get the data. If you have "numerous direct quotes" then please provide them. In their absence I'd direct you to the footnotes I provided earlier. (Also, I'd note that the quote compatibility club was from an email referring to shipping LogMeIn, not Skyhook, although Skyhook included in their case documents)
      - Steko 15y ago
        Quotes aren't hard to find. "This feels like a disaster :(" "I'll setup sometime this week so we can figure out a good battle plan" "That would be awful for Google" "I cannot stress how important Google’s Wi-Fi location database is to our Android and mobile product strategy" "It's sad to see"

doublerebel 15y ago

The level I'm speaking of is open-source involvement, with great smartphone hardware, world-compatible, at an affordable price. It is difficult to find a phone with two of those qualities, much less all four. My first hardware advantage was that they make Apple's chips, learn from Apple, and they save by letting Apple take much of the R&D cost. Apple is concerned about this and will likely be taking their chip production elsewhere. [1] Let's be realistic: Apple hardware is always more expensive. I'm not talking single-unit profit, Apple is well-known for their high markups. I'm talking overall market dominance. The Galaxy S II is already outselling the iPhone 4 in the UK. [2] The preorders in Korea for the Galaxy S II are much higher than the iPhone 4 release. [3] The first Galaxy S is outselling the iPhone 4 in Japan! [4] Software sales are not the software advantage, involving quality devs from the community is the advantage. Samsung doesn't need to spend as much on marketing and software dev because the community is already helping them. Just look at the ridiculous amount of free press that one move has given them, and the CM port isn't even to beta yet! [5] My second hardware advantage is absolutely their AMOLED tech. They are by far the leaders in OLED, Sony is the only other major player and they are looking at combining with Toshiba's LCD division in order to keep up. [6] If you are a consumer who prefers an OLED smartphone (as I do), the Galaxy S is the only choice. Again, Samsung manufacturers their own screens, simplifying the process. Googling 'best smartphone display' does not reflect any advantage besides Apple's giant marketing machine. If you have evidence to the contrary, I'd love to read it! But I think Samsung is the clear winner. [1] http://www.macstories.net/news/apple-to-outsource-a4-and-a5-production-ipad-2-with-enhanced-a4/ http://www.macstories.net/news/apple-to-outsource-a4-and-a5-... [2] http://www.mynextfone.co.uk/news/article/samsung-galaxy-s-ii-tops-iphone-4-sales-in-uk- http://www.mynextfone.co.uk/news/article/samsung-galaxy-s-ii... [3] http://venturebeat.com/2011/05/03/galaxy-s-ii-beats-iphone-4/ http://venturebeat.com/2011/05/03/galaxy-s-ii-beats-iphone-4... [4] http://www.redmondpie.com/samsung-galaxy-s-outsells-iphone-4-in-japan-for-q1-2011/ http://www.redmondpie.com/samsung-galaxy-s-outsells-iphone-4... [5] http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=galaxy+s+ii+cyanogenmod http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&#3... [6] http://www.crunchgear.com/2011/06/08/sony-and-toshiba-to-merge-oled-and-lcd-businesses/ http://www.crunchgear.com/2011/06/08/sony-and-toshiba-to-mer...