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> What I learned in the two years to follow was that I was trying to control something I had no control over, and I suffered as a result. In my third year, I be

> What I learned in the two years to follow was that I was trying to control something I had no control over, and I suffered as a result. In my third year, I began to journal. I discovered that my thoughts and my actions were the only two things I could control. It was a pivotal moment in my life. I went from being a victim of my circumstances to being a master of my destiny. Almost every book and teaching mostly comes down to this. Whether is Viktor Frankl or good old CBT. I actually read a very good passage about this in a book called Hapiness Trap - Choose anything you are aware of: a sight, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought, feeling, movement, body part, material object—literally anything. - Focus on that thing and observe it as if you were a curious scientist. - As you’re observing it, notice who’s doing the observing. - That’s all there is to it. - In that moment, when you observe the observing, you are the observing self. - So the moment you realise what is happening—that you’re fusing with stories or believing that you are the documentary—you can instantly step back and observe. - Then all you need to do is notice that you’re observing and in that moment, there is the real you.

ericmcer 6y ago
It is interesting how deep introspection and observation usually leads to Buddhist like ideals.
- throw1234651234 6y ago
  The only issue is that: "- As you’re observing it, notice who’s doing the observing. - That’s all there is to it. - In that moment, when you observe the observing, you are the observing self." means nothing. What does this mean? Look in the mirror? Focus on your breath? Repeat the thought you just had? None of this leads to any sort of depth that is often claimed.
  - omginternets 6y ago
    Surely you understand how you can observe your own behavior, including observation ... right?
  - jcims 6y ago
    I don’t know if I do what is being described here, but if I were to try to create a computing analogy it would be spinning up a low priority thread that is just sampling what is going on in my mind and how I’m processing the observations that I make and the sensory inputs that I’m experiencing. These samples are just stored away somewhere that I’m able to somewhat recall later. It’s kind of similar to that state of mind you have when you’re boiling water, you get involved with some other activity but there’s somehow an increased sensitivity to the rather subtle sound of a bubbling pot. If you try to think too much about the observations real-time, you interrupt the primary thought process that you were trying to observe. So it’s kind of a passive process that you can then reason about later. I think it’s just something you have to try to do until you start to get results, it’s so subtle and personal that I think it’s going to be difficult for anyone to truly give prescriptive instruction that results in success.
  - lhorie 6y ago
    Generally it means being aware of your physicality in a larger context. For example, maybe you're getting outraged by something you just read online, and it can help put things into perspective when you realize that you're a person sitting in front of a computer tapping on a keyboard.
  - jakeva 6y ago
    It seems you have failed to consider that the meaning of something is subjective and that for you it means nothing and lacks depth, while for others it is profound in its depth. In situations like this, I often find it more productive to examine why it seems like others are getting something out of it while I am not. Perhaps this is an opportunity to grow!
    - ARandomerDude 6y ago
      > It seems you have failed to consider that the meaning of something is subjective and that for you it means nothing and lacks depth, while for others it is profound in its depth. That statement is self-refuting because it is objective. Subjectivism can't get off the ground because its fundamental premise is objective.
      - Der_Einzige 6y ago
        There is exactly one truth in the universe, that there are no other truths. qed. Epistemological monism easily resolves the "socratic paradox" and it looks like that's how Socrates himself resolves it. "although I do not suppose that either of us knows anything really beautiful and good, I am better off than he is – for he knows nothing, and thinks that he knows. I neither know nor think that I know" - Socrates, in Platos Apology
        ARandomerDude 6y ago
        > There is exactly one truth in the universe, that there are no other truths. > qed. This is a contradiction. QED means you just proved something to be true. If there is a single truth (that there is only one truth) then there can be no deductive reasoning, science, etc. You must have objective truth and reasoning in order to say anything other than "I feel..."
      - loveistheanswer 6y ago
        Consciousness is inherently subjective
  - loveistheanswer 6y ago
    It's meditation; detachment from being completely possesed by your train of thoughts. There is plenty of scientific evidence that shows meditation can have psychological and physiological benefits for many people
  - saltcured 6y ago
    I can appreciate this perspective but, like others have said, it is probably useful to add a "for me" and "for others" qualifier to these observations and see that there is no universally true statement for all people. I have considered "meditative" to be a part of my character for nearly my whole life, while it is self-taught/self-discovered and idiosyncratic. I would read some popular accounts of meditation and hear parts which resonated and parts that just didn't seem to translate. I already am aware of my breathing. I discovered "square breathing" for myself as a child for pain and stress management and got lots of breath-awareness through swimming. I find it odd to imagine being unaware of breathing, but I realize it must be possible from the accounts of others. I am self-reflective and aware of my thoughts and emotional responses. I had difficult aspects to my childhood and had to learn to modulate my responses and predict the unpredictable to deal with volatile personalities in my surroundings. I find it odd to imagine being unaware of my thoughts or emotions. In recent years, I've struggled with stress management and found myself stating things very similar to your final line. I hear people telling me to do these beginner-level meditation steps and I simultaneously feel, "I am already doing this," "it is not working," and sometimes "your advice is not actionable!" while feeling very frustrated. I might blurt out any of those statements if I get past feeling it is pointless to continue the interaction. On reflection, I think it may be impossible to know which is more true of the apparent contradictions. Am I not doing it even though I think I am? Is it working even though I don't think so? Is it really meaningless advice or I am just being petulant? These guides and advice are written for a target audience. They are not really wrong if they do not work for some of us, as we may not be the audience. What is frustrating is that it can feel impossible to find alternative guidance if you have an atypical starting state. What is alternative advice about "being present" for someone who is stuck in hyper-vigilance due to stress/trauma? What is alternative advice about "recognizing your thoughts" for someone who is stuck ruminating and meta-ruminating? Etc.
    - msrenee 6y ago
      Have you tried guided meditations? Those were essential for me to get started. I think it's Tara Brach that has some on her website. Maybe 5-10 minutes and having the voice cues helps keep me on track. Don't beat yourself up if your mind starts wandering. When you realize you're off track, just refocus on your breathing, seeing the things around you. What do you hear, what do you smell, can you feel the pressure where your body meets the floor, the bed, or chair? Your mind will wander off every couple seconds at first, just don't even worry about it and bring your focus back onto the sensations your body is feeling. If you start to feel restless, think about what sensations you are feeling. Don't try to calm down. Focus on regular breathing, feel that your heart rate is elevated, feel out where the tension is located in your body. Is it in your neck, your chest? See if you can gentle relax those muscles. Theres no right way to meditate and there's no wrong way. If you're worried that you're not doing it right, bring your attention back to the physical sensations and your 5 senses. Sorry if it's not helpful. I think you were the one looking for a more concrete guide and this is what works for me.
  - throwanem 6y ago
    > What does this mean? This is one of those questions that can't be usefully answered without reference to the experience it's asking about. I can say from my own experience that what's being described isn't nonsense, but I can't put words around it that make sense as an explanation of how I know. Nor can anyone else, as far as I can tell, and I've seen many try. The method described here seems fine as far as it goes, but it's kind of like learning to ride a bike, or maybe how to juggle. There are clear steps you can follow, but they only take you up to the point where a moment of novel insight is required to grasp the skill, and only that moment of novel insight will take you any further. Once you've had it, you never forget it, but there's a step in there that no one else can take you through - you have to find it for yourself or not at all. It's not fair, but that's just how it is as far as I can tell. I wish I could do better, and I'm sorry that I can't.
- Der_Einzige 6y ago
  When I do deep introspection, I feel much more connected to the kinds of ideas espoused by Jainists (complete non violence, aestheticism, recognition of inherent subjectivity and indeterminacy of the universe) rather than the Buddhist analogs (e.g. 4 novel truths or 8 fold path)
imiric 6y ago
Observing sensations, thoughts and even the observer is a common practice in mindfulness meditation. I've only started doing short daily meditations and find it very difficult to do this successfully, and get easily distracted. I found that I'm only able to focus on a single thought at a time, and if that's a distracting one, then I lose the observation part of it. Any tips from experienced meditators?
- Elof 6y ago
  My only tip is to not be hard on yourself and stick with it. Doing meditation 'right' isn't an end.
- airstrike 6y ago
  I've found that focusing on one's breathing tends to help
- justinpombrio 6y ago
  Two pieces of advice: - Getting easily distracted is normal. Don't set a goal of never getting distracted: it's unrealistic and counterproductive. I've spent hundreds of hours meditating, and still get distracted (albeit more briefly). Instead, feel good when you notice you're distracted. The goal is to train yourself to notice and return to the sensation sooner, with positive feedback. - Don't try to block out everything except what you're meditating on. That should be your main focus, but you should let yourself be aware of other things in the background. The Mind Illuminated has some good practical advice in the early chapters. I can't vouch for the later chapters. https://www.amazon.com/Mind-Illuminated-Meditation-Integrating-Mindfulness/dp/1501156985 https://www.amazon.com/Mind-Illuminated-Meditation-Integrati...

ericmcer 6y ago

It is interesting how deep introspection and observation usually leads to Buddhist like ideals.

throw1234651234 6y ago
The only issue is that: "- As you’re observing it, notice who’s doing the observing. - That’s all there is to it. - In that moment, when you observe the observing, you are the observing self." means nothing. What does this mean? Look in the mirror? Focus on your breath? Repeat the thought you just had? None of this leads to any sort of depth that is often claimed.
- omginternets 6y ago
  Surely you understand how you can observe your own behavior, including observation ... right?
- jcims 6y ago
  I don’t know if I do what is being described here, but if I were to try to create a computing analogy it would be spinning up a low priority thread that is just sampling what is going on in my mind and how I’m processing the observations that I make and the sensory inputs that I’m experiencing. These samples are just stored away somewhere that I’m able to somewhat recall later. It’s kind of similar to that state of mind you have when you’re boiling water, you get involved with some other activity but there’s somehow an increased sensitivity to the rather subtle sound of a bubbling pot. If you try to think too much about the observations real-time, you interrupt the primary thought process that you were trying to observe. So it’s kind of a passive process that you can then reason about later. I think it’s just something you have to try to do until you start to get results, it’s so subtle and personal that I think it’s going to be difficult for anyone to truly give prescriptive instruction that results in success.
- lhorie 6y ago
  Generally it means being aware of your physicality in a larger context. For example, maybe you're getting outraged by something you just read online, and it can help put things into perspective when you realize that you're a person sitting in front of a computer tapping on a keyboard.
- jakeva 6y ago
  It seems you have failed to consider that the meaning of something is subjective and that for you it means nothing and lacks depth, while for others it is profound in its depth. In situations like this, I often find it more productive to examine why it seems like others are getting something out of it while I am not. Perhaps this is an opportunity to grow!
  - ARandomerDude 6y ago
    > It seems you have failed to consider that the meaning of something is subjective and that for you it means nothing and lacks depth, while for others it is profound in its depth. That statement is self-refuting because it is objective. Subjectivism can't get off the ground because its fundamental premise is objective.
    - Der_Einzige 6y ago
      There is exactly one truth in the universe, that there are no other truths. qed. Epistemological monism easily resolves the "socratic paradox" and it looks like that's how Socrates himself resolves it. "although I do not suppose that either of us knows anything really beautiful and good, I am better off than he is – for he knows nothing, and thinks that he knows. I neither know nor think that I know" - Socrates, in Platos Apology
      - ARandomerDude 6y ago
        > There is exactly one truth in the universe, that there are no other truths. > qed. This is a contradiction. QED means you just proved something to be true. If there is a single truth (that there is only one truth) then there can be no deductive reasoning, science, etc. You must have objective truth and reasoning in order to say anything other than "I feel..."
    - loveistheanswer 6y ago
      Consciousness is inherently subjective
- loveistheanswer 6y ago
  It's meditation; detachment from being completely possesed by your train of thoughts. There is plenty of scientific evidence that shows meditation can have psychological and physiological benefits for many people
- saltcured 6y ago
  I can appreciate this perspective but, like others have said, it is probably useful to add a "for me" and "for others" qualifier to these observations and see that there is no universally true statement for all people. I have considered "meditative" to be a part of my character for nearly my whole life, while it is self-taught/self-discovered and idiosyncratic. I would read some popular accounts of meditation and hear parts which resonated and parts that just didn't seem to translate. I already am aware of my breathing. I discovered "square breathing" for myself as a child for pain and stress management and got lots of breath-awareness through swimming. I find it odd to imagine being unaware of breathing, but I realize it must be possible from the accounts of others. I am self-reflective and aware of my thoughts and emotional responses. I had difficult aspects to my childhood and had to learn to modulate my responses and predict the unpredictable to deal with volatile personalities in my surroundings. I find it odd to imagine being unaware of my thoughts or emotions. In recent years, I've struggled with stress management and found myself stating things very similar to your final line. I hear people telling me to do these beginner-level meditation steps and I simultaneously feel, "I am already doing this," "it is not working," and sometimes "your advice is not actionable!" while feeling very frustrated. I might blurt out any of those statements if I get past feeling it is pointless to continue the interaction. On reflection, I think it may be impossible to know which is more true of the apparent contradictions. Am I not doing it even though I think I am? Is it working even though I don't think so? Is it really meaningless advice or I am just being petulant? These guides and advice are written for a target audience. They are not really wrong if they do not work for some of us, as we may not be the audience. What is frustrating is that it can feel impossible to find alternative guidance if you have an atypical starting state. What is alternative advice about "being present" for someone who is stuck in hyper-vigilance due to stress/trauma? What is alternative advice about "recognizing your thoughts" for someone who is stuck ruminating and meta-ruminating? Etc.
  - msrenee 6y ago
    Have you tried guided meditations? Those were essential for me to get started. I think it's Tara Brach that has some on her website. Maybe 5-10 minutes and having the voice cues helps keep me on track. Don't beat yourself up if your mind starts wandering. When you realize you're off track, just refocus on your breathing, seeing the things around you. What do you hear, what do you smell, can you feel the pressure where your body meets the floor, the bed, or chair? Your mind will wander off every couple seconds at first, just don't even worry about it and bring your focus back onto the sensations your body is feeling. If you start to feel restless, think about what sensations you are feeling. Don't try to calm down. Focus on regular breathing, feel that your heart rate is elevated, feel out where the tension is located in your body. Is it in your neck, your chest? See if you can gentle relax those muscles. Theres no right way to meditate and there's no wrong way. If you're worried that you're not doing it right, bring your attention back to the physical sensations and your 5 senses. Sorry if it's not helpful. I think you were the one looking for a more concrete guide and this is what works for me.
- throwanem 6y ago
  > What does this mean? This is one of those questions that can't be usefully answered without reference to the experience it's asking about. I can say from my own experience that what's being described isn't nonsense, but I can't put words around it that make sense as an explanation of how I know. Nor can anyone else, as far as I can tell, and I've seen many try. The method described here seems fine as far as it goes, but it's kind of like learning to ride a bike, or maybe how to juggle. There are clear steps you can follow, but they only take you up to the point where a moment of novel insight is required to grasp the skill, and only that moment of novel insight will take you any further. Once you've had it, you never forget it, but there's a step in there that no one else can take you through - you have to find it for yourself or not at all. It's not fair, but that's just how it is as far as I can tell. I wish I could do better, and I'm sorry that I can't.
Der_Einzige 6y ago
When I do deep introspection, I feel much more connected to the kinds of ideas espoused by Jainists (complete non violence, aestheticism, recognition of inherent subjectivity and indeterminacy of the universe) rather than the Buddhist analogs (e.g. 4 novel truths or 8 fold path)

imiric 6y ago

Observing sensations, thoughts and even the observer is a common practice in mindfulness meditation. I've only started doing short daily meditations and find it very difficult to do this successfully, and get easily distracted. I found that I'm only able to focus on a single thought at a time, and if that's a distracting one, then I lose the observation part of it. Any tips from experienced meditators?

Elof 6y ago
My only tip is to not be hard on yourself and stick with it. Doing meditation 'right' isn't an end.
airstrike 6y ago
I've found that focusing on one's breathing tends to help
justinpombrio 6y ago
Two pieces of advice: - Getting easily distracted is normal. Don't set a goal of never getting distracted: it's unrealistic and counterproductive. I've spent hundreds of hours meditating, and still get distracted (albeit more briefly). Instead, feel good when you notice you're distracted. The goal is to train yourself to notice and return to the sensation sooner, with positive feedback. - Don't try to block out everything except what you're meditating on. That should be your main focus, but you should let yourself be aware of other things in the background. The Mind Illuminated has some good practical advice in the early chapters. I can't vouch for the later chapters. https://www.amazon.com/Mind-Illuminated-Meditation-Integrating-Mindfulness/dp/1501156985 https://www.amazon.com/Mind-Illuminated-Meditation-Integrati...