3 ms·

It’s true that installing a native app requires a lot of trust, but on the other side of the coin, it’s not currently possible to do end-to-end encryption secur

It’s true that installing a native app requires a lot of trust, but on the other side of the coin, it’s not currently possible to do end-to-end encryption securely in a web app, and content in web apps is vulnerable to browser extensions with blanket permissions (there are many ubiquitous ones). Web apps also don’t have access to the OS keychain or any ability to set file permissions, meaning they can’t store local data securely without help from a server. So if you want real data privacy, you need a native app, despite the drawbacks you point out.

dillondoyle 6y ago
You probably could with WASM? Totally create your own stack 100%. And there are already encrypted media streams but I don't know if that counts as E2E? A lot of these 'native' apps are just web browsers anyways...
- danenania 6y ago
  The key difference is running a signed, static bundle of code (or binary), rather than a bunch of code that is loaded dynamically from a server on every request, which can be modified without leaving any trace. So running WASM wouldn't make any difference if you're relying on a server to deliver you that WASM on every request. A compromised (or subpoenaed) server could simply ship you a compromised WASM payload for a single request and you'd be extremely unlikely to ever find out. If Signal wanted to add a backdoor, otoh, they'd need to ship it as a signed update to all their users, with all the reputation risk that entails. Whether a native app is simply a browser underneath doesn't matter, just how the code gets delivered to the user. Even a browser extension or chrome app could work, since they are run from a signed, static bundle rather than from a server. Encrypted media streams seem like a DRM feature? I don't think they have any relevance to end-to-end encryption.

3 ms·

It’s true that installing a native app requires a lot of trust, but on the other side of the coin, it’s not currently possible to do end-to-end encryption secur

by danenania 6y ago

dillondoyle 6y ago
You probably could with WASM? Totally create your own stack 100%. And there are already encrypted media streams but I don't know if that counts as E2E? A lot of these 'native' apps are just web browsers anyways...
- danenania 6y ago
  The key difference is running a signed, static bundle of code (or binary), rather than a bunch of code that is loaded dynamically from a server on every request, which can be modified without leaving any trace. So running WASM wouldn't make any difference if you're relying on a server to deliver you that WASM on every request. A compromised (or subpoenaed) server could simply ship you a compromised WASM payload for a single request and you'd be extremely unlikely to ever find out. If Signal wanted to add a backdoor, otoh, they'd need to ship it as a signed update to all their users, with all the reputation risk that entails. Whether a native app is simply a browser underneath doesn't matter, just how the code gets delivered to the user. Even a browser extension or chrome app could work, since they are run from a signed, static bundle rather than from a server. Encrypted media streams seem like a DRM feature? I don't think they have any relevance to end-to-end encryption.