4 ms·

While this seems like a good idea in theory, in practice there are some serious hurdles. - Adding catapult launchers and arrestor wires adds a lot to the requi

While this seems like a good idea in theory, in practice there are some serious hurdles. - Adding catapult launchers and arrestor wires adds a lot to the requirements. It's not just a matter of making the ship bigger, you need to provide the power for those catapults. Here's a RAND study that looks at alternative carrier designs that has some information on the costs: https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR2006.html https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR2006.html - Even if you decide to build these bigger carriers and phase out the LHDs, that takes time. It would take decades, during which you have no fixed wing aircraft you can launch from your LHDs, unless you want to try and revive the Harrier jet program as a stopgap. - Keep in mind the F-35B (the STOVL variant) is meant to replace the Harrier, so it makes sense to compare the F-35B to the Harrier instead of the F-18 or F-16. The Harrier also had poor availability rates and reliability issues. While the F-35B is worse, it is continuing to improve. And it has both stealth and is capable of supersonic flight, which the Harrier was not. In fact, the F-35B is the first production STOVL aircraft capable of supersonic flight. - An STOVL aircraft can be used from more than just LHDs. They can be launched from short, improvised airfields on the ground. The marines could potentially operate them from parking lots or just open fields. That's actually a part of some new doctrine the marines are working on, where they maintain a series of rotating, distributed air fields closer to the enemy rather than concentrating their forces on a ship which is easier to detect and potentially more vulnerable. Here's some more information: https://www.mccdc.marines.mil/Portals/172/Docs/MCCDC/young/MCCDC-YH/document/naval-6.pdf?ver=2016-08-22-104600-140 https://www.mccdc.marines.mil/Portals/172/Docs/MCCDC/young/M...

jabl 6y ago
> - Adding catapult launchers and arrestor wires adds a lot to the requirements. It's not just a matter of making the ship bigger, you need to provide the power for those catapults. Here's a RAND study that looks at alternative carrier designs that has some information on the costs: https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR2006.html https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR2006.html Thanks. So from that report we see the estimated savings from dropping one EMALS (the fancy new electric catapults) is $160M, presumably including the extra power to run it. So for a smaller carrier with, say, two catapults, the difference between a STOVL option and a catapult one would be, say, roughly $.5B (allowing some extra for the arrestor wires etc.). Now, based on a quick web search, the price difference between the F-35B and F-35C is around $10M. So if you have an air wing of 35 planes (wikipedia lists 36 F-35B for the new British carriers, and 30-40 Rafale's for the current French carrier, so 35 is probably a good ballpark figure for a smaller carrier), that's already a $350M difference, almost making up for the extra cost in the carrier itself. Now factor in the avoidance of the R&D cost for the STOVL variant, that the F-35C is a significantly more capable plane, and finally that over the life of the carrier you're likely to see several generations of planes used. This reinforces my preconceived notion that the F-35B development program made no sense. > - Even if you decide to build these bigger carriers and phase out the LHDs, that takes time. It would take decades, during which you have no fixed wing aircraft you can launch from your LHDs, unless you want to try and revive the Harrier jet program as a stopgap. The USMC apparently has some historical reasons why they really want to operate their own fighters, but it does seem horribly expensive compared to the alternative of relying on the navy for support in that area. > - Keep in mind the F-35B (the STOVL variant) is meant to replace the Harrier, so it makes sense to compare the F-35B to the Harrier instead of the F-18 or F-16. Why? The enemy isn't going to give you any handicap points for operating a STOVL aircraft instead of a more capable 'traditional' one. > - An STOVL aircraft can be used from more than just LHDs. They can be launched from short, improvised airfields on the ground. Sure, that's an advantage. Is it enough to offset the disadvantages of a STOVL aircraft? I'm not convinced. Many traditional aircraft can also operate from improvised airfields, for instance made from a straight stretch of road.

jabl 6y ago

> - Adding catapult launchers and arrestor wires adds a lot to the requirements. It's not just a matter of making the ship bigger, you need to provide the power for those catapults. Here's a RAND study that looks at alternative carrier designs that has some information on the costs: https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR2006.html https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR2006.html Thanks. So from that report we see the estimated savings from dropping one EMALS (the fancy new electric catapults) is $160M, presumably including the extra power to run it. So for a smaller carrier with, say, two catapults, the difference between a STOVL option and a catapult one would be, say, roughly $.5B (allowing some extra for the arrestor wires etc.). Now, based on a quick web search, the price difference between the F-35B and F-35C is around $10M. So if you have an air wing of 35 planes (wikipedia lists 36 F-35B for the new British carriers, and 30-40 Rafale's for the current French carrier, so 35 is probably a good ballpark figure for a smaller carrier), that's already a $350M difference, almost making up for the extra cost in the carrier itself. Now factor in the avoidance of the R&D cost for the STOVL variant, that the F-35C is a significantly more capable plane, and finally that over the life of the carrier you're likely to see several generations of planes used. This reinforces my preconceived notion that the F-35B development program made no sense. > - Even if you decide to build these bigger carriers and phase out the LHDs, that takes time. It would take decades, during which you have no fixed wing aircraft you can launch from your LHDs, unless you want to try and revive the Harrier jet program as a stopgap. The USMC apparently has some historical reasons why they really want to operate their own fighters, but it does seem horribly expensive compared to the alternative of relying on the navy for support in that area. > - Keep in mind the F-35B (the STOVL variant) is meant to replace the Harrier, so it makes sense to compare the F-35B to the Harrier instead of the F-18 or F-16. Why? The enemy isn't going to give you any handicap points for operating a STOVL aircraft instead of a more capable 'traditional' one. > - An STOVL aircraft can be used from more than just LHDs. They can be launched from short, improvised airfields on the ground. Sure, that's an advantage. Is it enough to offset the disadvantages of a STOVL aircraft? I'm not convinced. Many traditional aircraft can also operate from improvised airfields, for instance made from a straight stretch of road.