4 ms·

>I'd love to see a few smaller software companies refuse to get bought up and instead cultivate an independent mindset. Didn't Oakley sunglasses try something

>I'd love to see a few smaller software companies refuse to get bought up and instead cultivate an independent mindset. Didn't Oakley sunglasses try something similar when Luxottica first tried to buy them and then Luxottica managed to ruin them and ended up buying them much cheaper? And hasn't Microsoft already done the same to a large number of startups?

causalmodels 6y ago
Example #1: Teams is currently eating Slack.
- Spivak 6y ago
  Yep. It's not enough to have a better product when Teams comes "free" for a lot of orgs.
  - goalieca 6y ago
    I don’t know at which point slack is better. We use both and I find teams annoying and weird but I prefer it because it is less distracting than slack. In some ways slack feels designed to keep my attention and stay engaged.
    - gh-throw 6y ago
      I haven't used Teams in almost two years, but when I did I never felt like I was sure "where" I was, or where anything else was. I'd find myself "somewhere" not have no confidence I'd ever be able to get back. I hated using it. Anything I cared about I'd copy out, or keep notes, including stuff that I'd absolutely leave to Slack to keep for me (so, middling-important stuff). Lots of enterprise UI is like that for me, actually, including most PM software more complex than GH issues + boards. I find them extremely uncomfortable to use because I'm never confident I'm doing the right thing, or that what I'm doing is safe to do, or whether I'll be able to find the things I need again. Slack is heading that way with some of their changes (the way drafts and threads are handled is juuuuust on the edge of putting it in that territory) but I still never feel "lost" for long, on there.
- 908B64B197 6y ago
  I still recall their 2016 full page add in the New York Times "We realized a few years ago that the value of switching to Slack was so obvious and the advantages so overwhelming that every business would be using Slack, or “something just like it,” within the decade."[0] They were right about the "something just like it" part.[1] [0] https://slack.com/blog/news/dear-microsoft#.r90mkakwl https://slack.com/blog/news/dear-microsoft#.r90mkakwl [1] https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/26/21195092/slack-new-user-records-coronavirus-pandemic-remote-working-growth-concurrent-users https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/26/21195092/slack-new-user-r...
sho_hn 6y ago
> And hasn't Microsoft already done the same to a large number of startups? Not just startups. They tried to acquire Nokia's handset business and initially failed. Stephen Elop (ex-MS) was installed as new CEO via investor pressure, Nokia abandoned their promising Linux-based phones and changed direction to Windows Mobile and then it was acquired after all. And failed. Elop has, of course, denied having been a trojan horse for Microsoft at Nokia after the initial failed acquisiton attempt. Nokia's share price and profit lowered considerably during his tenure as a CEO, making it much cheaper to acquire. Resisting acquisition can be very challenging, and takes a lot of energy and time.
- 908B64B197 6y ago
  > Nokia abandoned their promising Linux-based phones "Promising" is an interesting choice of words here.
  - sho_hn 6y ago
    The Nokia N9 was very well-received. If you need lots of glowing citations: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_N9#Reception https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_N9#Reception If anything, "promising" may be the wrong choice of words because it was arguably better and more mature than the equivalent debut iOS and webOS devices at launch. Of course that's cheating a bit, as the tech stack had some history behind it by that point. Still, for a line-incepting product it was very impressive execution, especially for a company that was still so hung up on a legacy product line at the same time (Symbian). Personally, I used one as well and I don't find it very hard to imagine a version of the world where it could still be my preferred OS/ecosystem right now. It was truly a strange situation, and Nokia of the day one strange animal of a dissonant company. I don't know if Nokia would have made it without the MS interference -- but I think it didn't help. This is a nice little nostalgia anecdote too that gets discussed on HN occasionally: http://nition.momentstudio.co.nz/2014/08/the-nokia-n9-alarm-clock/ http://nition.momentstudio.co.nz/2014/08/the-nokia-n9-alarm-...
- sliken 6y ago
  Yes, it pretty much went that way, but Elop seems dead set on killing off nokia so Microsoft could buy it for pennies on the dollar. First it was the "we are on a burning platform letter", then abandoned all their current customers, moved everything to windows mobile, then months later switched to a new version of the microsoft mobile with no upgrade path for the users who just bought new windows mobile phones. The market at that point pretty much decided to skip that mess and go with IOS or Android.

causalmodels 6y ago

Example #1: Teams is currently eating Slack.

Spivak 6y ago
Yep. It's not enough to have a better product when Teams comes "free" for a lot of orgs.
- goalieca 6y ago
  I don’t know at which point slack is better. We use both and I find teams annoying and weird but I prefer it because it is less distracting than slack. In some ways slack feels designed to keep my attention and stay engaged.
  - gh-throw 6y ago
    I haven't used Teams in almost two years, but when I did I never felt like I was sure "where" I was, or where anything else was. I'd find myself "somewhere" not have no confidence I'd ever be able to get back. I hated using it. Anything I cared about I'd copy out, or keep notes, including stuff that I'd absolutely leave to Slack to keep for me (so, middling-important stuff). Lots of enterprise UI is like that for me, actually, including most PM software more complex than GH issues + boards. I find them extremely uncomfortable to use because I'm never confident I'm doing the right thing, or that what I'm doing is safe to do, or whether I'll be able to find the things I need again. Slack is heading that way with some of their changes (the way drafts and threads are handled is juuuuust on the edge of putting it in that territory) but I still never feel "lost" for long, on there.
908B64B197 6y ago
I still recall their 2016 full page add in the New York Times "We realized a few years ago that the value of switching to Slack was so obvious and the advantages so overwhelming that every business would be using Slack, or “something just like it,” within the decade."[0] They were right about the "something just like it" part.[1] [0] https://slack.com/blog/news/dear-microsoft#.r90mkakwl https://slack.com/blog/news/dear-microsoft#.r90mkakwl [1] https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/26/21195092/slack-new-user-records-coronavirus-pandemic-remote-working-growth-concurrent-users https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/26/21195092/slack-new-user-r...

sho_hn 6y ago

> And hasn't Microsoft already done the same to a large number of startups? Not just startups. They tried to acquire Nokia's handset business and initially failed. Stephen Elop (ex-MS) was installed as new CEO via investor pressure, Nokia abandoned their promising Linux-based phones and changed direction to Windows Mobile and then it was acquired after all. And failed. Elop has, of course, denied having been a trojan horse for Microsoft at Nokia after the initial failed acquisiton attempt. Nokia's share price and profit lowered considerably during his tenure as a CEO, making it much cheaper to acquire. Resisting acquisition can be very challenging, and takes a lot of energy and time.

908B64B197 6y ago
> Nokia abandoned their promising Linux-based phones "Promising" is an interesting choice of words here.
- sho_hn 6y ago
  The Nokia N9 was very well-received. If you need lots of glowing citations: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_N9#Reception https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_N9#Reception If anything, "promising" may be the wrong choice of words because it was arguably better and more mature than the equivalent debut iOS and webOS devices at launch. Of course that's cheating a bit, as the tech stack had some history behind it by that point. Still, for a line-incepting product it was very impressive execution, especially for a company that was still so hung up on a legacy product line at the same time (Symbian). Personally, I used one as well and I don't find it very hard to imagine a version of the world where it could still be my preferred OS/ecosystem right now. It was truly a strange situation, and Nokia of the day one strange animal of a dissonant company. I don't know if Nokia would have made it without the MS interference -- but I think it didn't help. This is a nice little nostalgia anecdote too that gets discussed on HN occasionally: http://nition.momentstudio.co.nz/2014/08/the-nokia-n9-alarm-clock/ http://nition.momentstudio.co.nz/2014/08/the-nokia-n9-alarm-...
sliken 6y ago
Yes, it pretty much went that way, but Elop seems dead set on killing off nokia so Microsoft could buy it for pennies on the dollar. First it was the "we are on a burning platform letter", then abandoned all their current customers, moved everything to windows mobile, then months later switched to a new version of the microsoft mobile with no upgrade path for the users who just bought new windows mobile phones. The market at that point pretty much decided to skip that mess and go with IOS or Android.