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It’s effectively genocide and quite damning on society. I don’t put it squarely on the parents because it is so difficult. My neice has downs. Interactions wit

It’s effectively genocide and quite damning on society. I don’t put it squarely on the parents because it is so difficult. My neice has downs. Interactions with her are about the here and now. Joy and life. Fun and wit. Not plans and efficiency and production. Those with downs are modern day prophets for the rest of us to expose the soul-destroying utilitarian ethics of modern society... and we’re killing them!

2lwxxtj 6y ago
How is it "damning on society"? Raising normal children is already a massive time commitment, and at the end you get a functioning adult that you don't have to take care of, and which can give you grand children. Why would anyone want a child that takes even more time and has to be taken care of for its entire life?
- canam 6y ago
  As the parent of a child with Down Syndrome who is also autistic, I can say it is wonderful experience. He brings us great joy and love, despite his unique needs. I couldn't imagine that anyone who met him thinks he doesn't deserve to exist.
  - 2lwxxtj 6y ago
    Do you have other children? Would you have preferred it if your child with Down Syndrome had not been born that way?
    - canam 6y ago
      I do. I have another son who does not have Down Syndrome. Your question is difficult to answer. His condition is a part of who he is. If he didn't have Down Syndrome he would be a different person. In effect your question is do I wish I had a different son. The answer is no, despite the challenges.
      - 2lwxxtj 6y ago
        If I were to ask if you'd prefer that your normal son had been born with Down Syndrome, would that be an easier question for you to answer?
        tptacek 6y ago
        This is getting creepy. Maybe you might back off a bit.
        2lwxxtj 6y ago
        He made the choice to share personal details. If he doesn't want to continue to answer, he doesn't have to. I'm not going to follow him around on here trying to get an answer out of him.
        canam 6y ago
        It's really not a different question. Either way if my other son also had Down Syndrome, I would accept him and love him for who is. That's our job as parents, right? BTW, our odds of having our first son with Down Syndrome and autism were about 1 in a million (maybe higher). Our odds of having a second child with Down Syndrome were 1 in 100. That didn't stop us. I don't mind answering questions about our experience. Hopefully this line of questions isn't trying to prove a point.
        2lwxxtj 6y ago
        As a parent, it is terribly hard to imagine your child not being there. I suppose what I'm curious about is, knowing what it's like to raise a child with Down Syndrome and what it's like to raise a child without, if you hadn't had either child yet, or perhaps were to have a third child, would you have a preference, and if so how strong of a preference?
        canam 6y ago
        Every child is different and has unique challenges. All parents here can attest to that. Regardless of disabilities, there are emotional issues, sub-culture issues, etc. The biggest challenge is the lack of community support. I live in the US, and disability services are the first thing cut when ever there is a budget cut. Most workers who choose to work in the support industry make little over minimum wage, for their entire careers. That means high turnover. That leaves a lot of care to the parents and extended family. So financially there are extra costs (e.g. paying a sitter, for an adult child), equipment, and planning for support after you are gone. There is emotional stress, but you can probably imagine that. One of my peeves is how casually people throw around the R-word. Then act innocent that they didn't mean to be insulting. So yes there are challenges. I wouldn't want my son to be anyone else though. I'm in my 50s, my kids are in their 20s. I'm not looking to have anymore kids. :)
  - smabie 6y ago
    What does this mean? Like you don't think people should have the choice to abort?
    - canam 6y ago
      My comment was in response to the question why would anyone want a child like that. There seems to be pressure to terminate pregnancies with Down Syndrome. Fear of the unknown drives the decision, and it is a non-controversial decision because society seems to expect it. Once you see past the disability and humanize them, it does seem cruel to terminate a pregnancy due to Down Syndrome. That said, I'm pro-choice and always support the right to choose.
slothtrop 6y ago
It's not genocide by any definition. That would constitute eliminating an existing culture / ethnicity / society.
- C06aka 6y ago
  If eliminating greater than 90% of a group of people via genetic testing and systemic demonization isn't genocide, nothing is.
  - scpedicini 6y ago
    If it's performed as an abortion would that still be considered genocide? Isn't that implying that the fetus is a living person with all the rights accorded to them? That would seem to be going against the contemporary wisdom of abortion wrt women's rights.
    - C06aka 6y ago
      While the personhood and rights that the unborn have are hotly debated, the term genocide, as defined by the person who coined the term, points out that it doesn't mean the immediate murder of all people in that group: >Generally speaking, genocide does not necessarily mean the immediate destruction of a nation, except when accomplished by mass killings of all members of a nation. It is intended rather to signify a coordinated plan of different actions aiming at the destruction of essential foundations of the life of national groups, with the aim of annihilating the groups themselves. The objectives of such a plan would be the disintegration of the political and social institutions, of culture, language, national feelings, religion, and the economic existence of national groups, and the destruction of the personal security, liberty, health, dignity, and even the lives of the individuals belonging to such groups
      - scpedicini 6y ago
        Yeah I hear what you're saying. However, I still don't think it would be considered genocide in the conventional sense because the woman is not being compelled to have an abortion, it is an individual choice. Even if the percentage of women electing to have an abortion is high, they're not acting as a singular cohesive body with the collective goal to eliminate all children having Down syndrome.
BrandoElFollito 6y ago
> It’s effectively genocide I would say that this is effectively getting rid of a batch of cells. It depends on your culture, vision of the world etc.

2lwxxtj 6y ago

How is it "damning on society"? Raising normal children is already a massive time commitment, and at the end you get a functioning adult that you don't have to take care of, and which can give you grand children. Why would anyone want a child that takes even more time and has to be taken care of for its entire life?

canam 6y ago
As the parent of a child with Down Syndrome who is also autistic, I can say it is wonderful experience. He brings us great joy and love, despite his unique needs. I couldn't imagine that anyone who met him thinks he doesn't deserve to exist.
- 2lwxxtj 6y ago
  Do you have other children? Would you have preferred it if your child with Down Syndrome had not been born that way?
  - canam 6y ago
    I do. I have another son who does not have Down Syndrome. Your question is difficult to answer. His condition is a part of who he is. If he didn't have Down Syndrome he would be a different person. In effect your question is do I wish I had a different son. The answer is no, despite the challenges.
    - 2lwxxtj 6y ago
      If I were to ask if you'd prefer that your normal son had been born with Down Syndrome, would that be an easier question for you to answer?
      - tptacek 6y ago
        This is getting creepy. Maybe you might back off a bit.
        2lwxxtj 6y ago
        He made the choice to share personal details. If he doesn't want to continue to answer, he doesn't have to. I'm not going to follow him around on here trying to get an answer out of him.
      - canam 6y ago
        It's really not a different question. Either way if my other son also had Down Syndrome, I would accept him and love him for who is. That's our job as parents, right? BTW, our odds of having our first son with Down Syndrome and autism were about 1 in a million (maybe higher). Our odds of having a second child with Down Syndrome were 1 in 100. That didn't stop us. I don't mind answering questions about our experience. Hopefully this line of questions isn't trying to prove a point.
        2lwxxtj 6y ago
        As a parent, it is terribly hard to imagine your child not being there. I suppose what I'm curious about is, knowing what it's like to raise a child with Down Syndrome and what it's like to raise a child without, if you hadn't had either child yet, or perhaps were to have a third child, would you have a preference, and if so how strong of a preference?
        canam 6y ago
        Every child is different and has unique challenges. All parents here can attest to that. Regardless of disabilities, there are emotional issues, sub-culture issues, etc. The biggest challenge is the lack of community support. I live in the US, and disability services are the first thing cut when ever there is a budget cut. Most workers who choose to work in the support industry make little over minimum wage, for their entire careers. That means high turnover. That leaves a lot of care to the parents and extended family. So financially there are extra costs (e.g. paying a sitter, for an adult child), equipment, and planning for support after you are gone. There is emotional stress, but you can probably imagine that. One of my peeves is how casually people throw around the R-word. Then act innocent that they didn't mean to be insulting. So yes there are challenges. I wouldn't want my son to be anyone else though. I'm in my 50s, my kids are in their 20s. I'm not looking to have anymore kids. :)
- smabie 6y ago
  What does this mean? Like you don't think people should have the choice to abort?
  - canam 6y ago
    My comment was in response to the question why would anyone want a child like that. There seems to be pressure to terminate pregnancies with Down Syndrome. Fear of the unknown drives the decision, and it is a non-controversial decision because society seems to expect it. Once you see past the disability and humanize them, it does seem cruel to terminate a pregnancy due to Down Syndrome. That said, I'm pro-choice and always support the right to choose.

slothtrop 6y ago

It's not genocide by any definition. That would constitute eliminating an existing culture / ethnicity / society.

C06aka 6y ago
If eliminating greater than 90% of a group of people via genetic testing and systemic demonization isn't genocide, nothing is.
- scpedicini 6y ago
  If it's performed as an abortion would that still be considered genocide? Isn't that implying that the fetus is a living person with all the rights accorded to them? That would seem to be going against the contemporary wisdom of abortion wrt women's rights.
  - C06aka 6y ago
    While the personhood and rights that the unborn have are hotly debated, the term genocide, as defined by the person who coined the term, points out that it doesn't mean the immediate murder of all people in that group: >Generally speaking, genocide does not necessarily mean the immediate destruction of a nation, except when accomplished by mass killings of all members of a nation. It is intended rather to signify a coordinated plan of different actions aiming at the destruction of essential foundations of the life of national groups, with the aim of annihilating the groups themselves. The objectives of such a plan would be the disintegration of the political and social institutions, of culture, language, national feelings, religion, and the economic existence of national groups, and the destruction of the personal security, liberty, health, dignity, and even the lives of the individuals belonging to such groups
    - scpedicini 6y ago
      Yeah I hear what you're saying. However, I still don't think it would be considered genocide in the conventional sense because the woman is not being compelled to have an abortion, it is an individual choice. Even if the percentage of women electing to have an abortion is high, they're not acting as a singular cohesive body with the collective goal to eliminate all children having Down syndrome.

BrandoElFollito 6y ago

> It’s effectively genocide I would say that this is effectively getting rid of a batch of cells. It depends on your culture, vision of the world etc.