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What if there’s no passenger onboard?

aww_dang 6y ago
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0477080/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0477080/ That's a problem. Perhaps cars shouldn't be driving around empty?
- dontreact 6y ago
  So you want to make unoccupied autonomous cars illegal? I don’t think I agree that autonomous cars should never be allowed to drive around without a person. If they can really be proven to be safer than a person (in terms of fatalities and crashes per 100 million miles driven) then I think there are a lot of really great things that would be possible.
  - aww_dang 6y ago
    Under that scenario, what business would the police have pulling it over via backdoor? Why not contact the operator, or perhaps just follow it to the destination? There are also tire grappling devices. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esJ-Fo6XAv8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esJ-Fo6XAv8
    - dontreact 6y ago
      What it’s speeding, or clearly malfunctioning in a way that endangers others? What if the car plates come up as stolen? I mean it’s basically all the same reasons why police stop you today so this discussion will basically boil down to whether you think police have the right to stop a person. Sure you can send a request to stop it, but what if the person is not available or not responding? Tire grappling devices seem like a last resort that endanger the car, the police, and potentially the people around the car.
      - aww_dang 6y ago
        Right, that's a issue if we start from the premise of >If they can really be proven to be safer... As long as we are playing the game of "what if", there are unending hypothetical abuse scenarios for backdoor access. Malicious actors have a history of exploiting backdoors that are supposedly only for the good guys. There is also the possibility that law enforcement may not always operate in a responsible or honorable manner. The issue of police being empowered to stop a person is separate. https://www.wired.com/2015/09/gm-took-5-years-fix-full-takeover-hack-millions-onstar-cars/ https://www.wired.com/2015/09/gm-took-5-years-fix-full-takeo... >“We basically had complete control of the car except the steering,” says Karl Koscher, one of the security researchers who helped to develop the attack. There are any number of hypothetical scenarios you could develop from this. Hence my link to IMDB. The only limit is your imagination.
        dontreact 6y ago
        These are not crazy what if games that I’m imagining. They are scenarios that happen every day. My car had its license plate stolen last week and I think it makes sense for the police to stop cars without a license plate.
  - bellyfullofbac 6y ago
    Year 2025: "I work for Uber. My job is to sit in the self-driving car the whole day. The car can drive itself, but the law doesn't allow that, so I have to sit there. My title is 'legal compliance associate'."
    - tolbish 6y ago
      "The factory of the future will have only two employees, a man and a dog. The man will be there to feed the dog. The dog will be there to keep the man from touching the equipment." - Attributed to Warren Bennis
jwalton 6y ago
1) The car can have different behaviour if a passenger is onboard or not. Most passenger cars already disable the passenger side airbag if no one is sitting in the passenger seat. 2) If I’m not in my car and it’s driving around, and police pull it over, and it unlocks its doors and rolls down its windows, do the police need a warrant to look inside my car?

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0477080/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0477080/ That's a problem. Perhaps cars shouldn't be driving around empty?

dontreact 6y ago
So you want to make unoccupied autonomous cars illegal? I don’t think I agree that autonomous cars should never be allowed to drive around without a person. If they can really be proven to be safer than a person (in terms of fatalities and crashes per 100 million miles driven) then I think there are a lot of really great things that would be possible.
- aww_dang 6y ago
  Under that scenario, what business would the police have pulling it over via backdoor? Why not contact the operator, or perhaps just follow it to the destination? There are also tire grappling devices. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esJ-Fo6XAv8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esJ-Fo6XAv8
  - dontreact 6y ago
    What it’s speeding, or clearly malfunctioning in a way that endangers others? What if the car plates come up as stolen? I mean it’s basically all the same reasons why police stop you today so this discussion will basically boil down to whether you think police have the right to stop a person. Sure you can send a request to stop it, but what if the person is not available or not responding? Tire grappling devices seem like a last resort that endanger the car, the police, and potentially the people around the car.
    - aww_dang 6y ago
      Right, that's a issue if we start from the premise of >If they can really be proven to be safer... As long as we are playing the game of "what if", there are unending hypothetical abuse scenarios for backdoor access. Malicious actors have a history of exploiting backdoors that are supposedly only for the good guys. There is also the possibility that law enforcement may not always operate in a responsible or honorable manner. The issue of police being empowered to stop a person is separate. https://www.wired.com/2015/09/gm-took-5-years-fix-full-takeover-hack-millions-onstar-cars/ https://www.wired.com/2015/09/gm-took-5-years-fix-full-takeo... >“We basically had complete control of the car except the steering,” says Karl Koscher, one of the security researchers who helped to develop the attack. There are any number of hypothetical scenarios you could develop from this. Hence my link to IMDB. The only limit is your imagination.
      - dontreact 6y ago
        These are not crazy what if games that I’m imagining. They are scenarios that happen every day. My car had its license plate stolen last week and I think it makes sense for the police to stop cars without a license plate.
- bellyfullofbac 6y ago
  Year 2025: "I work for Uber. My job is to sit in the self-driving car the whole day. The car can drive itself, but the law doesn't allow that, so I have to sit there. My title is 'legal compliance associate'."
  - tolbish 6y ago
    "The factory of the future will have only two employees, a man and a dog. The man will be there to feed the dog. The dog will be there to keep the man from touching the equipment." - Attributed to Warren Bennis

jwalton 6y ago

1) The car can have different behaviour if a passenger is onboard or not. Most passenger cars already disable the passenger side airbag if no one is sitting in the passenger seat. 2) If I’m not in my car and it’s driving around, and police pull it over, and it unlocks its doors and rolls down its windows, do the police need a warrant to look inside my car?