4 ms·

It's time for the adults to take care of this. I understand the deeply embedded gun culture and stockpiles. But what would you do if you found out porcelain toi

by zikzak 6y ago

It's time for the adults to take care of this. I understand the deeply embedded gun culture and stockpiles. But what would you do if you found out porcelain toilets were killing people at this rate? You'd ban them and start programs to subsidize replacements. No, no, actually you'd have a significant percentage of the country insisting you can have thier toilets when you pry them from thier cold, dead hands. I sincerely wish this wasn't the way it is. The problem is generational, I guess. We need to start today by making guns a subject of ridicule among young people by using stats and studies to show there is no net benefit.

jfengel 6y ago
Facts and figures don't have a great track record of convincing people of things that they don't want to believe.
- zikzak 6y ago
  That may be true (ok, it is definitely true) but we have to start somewhere. I know a lot of people my age who grew up (like me!) in a house with guns and hunting that do not hunt or own guns. I don't even have anything against responsible gun owning and hunting. I am talking about getting people to understand that going beyond this (carrying a sidearm around all the time, keeping them in your car, thinking you can be Clint Eastwood when you get mugged, etc) all lead to people dying on purpose or accidentally at far higher rates than if we just didn't do this stuff. Gun OWNERSHIP is not the problem. Tons of households in countries all over the world have guns in them. You simply don't see the same level of gun death as in the US. It is because of their culture (e.g. compulsory military service - I'm not a fan but you will learn how to responsibly own and house a firearm and when you could reasonably expect it to be a useful tool vs something that will go off and kill your kid or be stolen and used in a crime later). Rant over, sorry, I get emotional when I think about this having been mugged at gun point with a pistol that was undoubtedly stolen from a car glove compartment or something during a routine car break in (assumptions, but you know what I mean). I survived the encounter because I didn't try to fumble in my bag for some gun I barely know how to use (in fact the first thing they did was grab my bag and frisk every inch of me). It was a crew, they were all business, and they got me. I walked away with my house keys and my empty wallet (note, they did NOT steal my ID). So yeah, that sort of thing has happened to me and I still, somehow, don't have fantasies about shooting a bunch of teenagers. Call me crazy.
  - splithalf 6y ago
    I’m with you and personally dislike guns to a degree that many find weird but I think the issue is that gun violence is illegal in the first place and so making laws seeking to prevent it is ineffective at best and really just smacks of legislative hubris. I can get an illegal firearm easily, today. I can get an illegal gun much easier than I can a legal one. Most gun violence is committed by criminals. These problems are often denied by advocates for reform, and that doesn’t help their credibility with bipartisan independents wary of authoritarian government.
    - sn_master 6y ago
      Exactly. Outside the US, major gun holders are criminals who get them illegally. Even in the US, most criminals have their guns illegally because they can't get one legally after their first felony.
gigatexal 6y ago
I say let’s try it! Do a gun buy back. Ban new sales of assault rifles and high capacity magazines; institute longer more invasive (effective?) background checks (have a buyer have to see a shrink before buying? Makes sense to me.) Before moving to Germany I owned some guns for sport: my friends and I would go into the mountains to designated shooting areas and do target practice. If the hoops to get a gun were increased 10 fold it wouldn’t effect me at all.
- gigatexal 6y ago
  HN curiosity: I post the most practical gun-control things I can think of that veer rather draconian yet get down-voted because they're not enough? If you disagree, perhaps state why?
  - throwaway53453 6y ago
    The definition of assault rifle is very poorly defined. There are dangerous weapons on both sides of the definition.
    - sn_master 6y ago
      Yes. Each time shooting happens I see 'analysts' thinking everything is full-auto only because of how it looks, and that automatically discredits them.
- sn_master 6y ago
  (I don't own a gun, not have intention of getting one myself) I get that for big cities with large police presence, but the US is very wide and has countless suburbs and small towns with very little law enforcement present. Please look up YouTube, you'll find many single moms and small families whose lives were saved because of guns, where it took law enforcement forever to reach them. I don't think seeing a 'shrink' would make much difference except for those with very obvious conditions than the gun shop would refuse selling to them anyway. Most psychiatrists are nothing like the movies portray them to be, and they can't deduce everything about you from a couple hours of talking unless you're in a real dire state of mind. Hell, most of the good ones even refuse to take new patients or have 6 months long waiting list, and only the new inexperienced ones are easy to get hold of. Source: Tried to find a psychiatrist myself couple years ago for depression.

by zikzak 6y ago

jfengel 6y ago

Facts and figures don't have a great track record of convincing people of things that they don't want to believe.

zikzak 6y ago
That may be true (ok, it is definitely true) but we have to start somewhere. I know a lot of people my age who grew up (like me!) in a house with guns and hunting that do not hunt or own guns. I don't even have anything against responsible gun owning and hunting. I am talking about getting people to understand that going beyond this (carrying a sidearm around all the time, keeping them in your car, thinking you can be Clint Eastwood when you get mugged, etc) all lead to people dying on purpose or accidentally at far higher rates than if we just didn't do this stuff. Gun OWNERSHIP is not the problem. Tons of households in countries all over the world have guns in them. You simply don't see the same level of gun death as in the US. It is because of their culture (e.g. compulsory military service - I'm not a fan but you will learn how to responsibly own and house a firearm and when you could reasonably expect it to be a useful tool vs something that will go off and kill your kid or be stolen and used in a crime later). Rant over, sorry, I get emotional when I think about this having been mugged at gun point with a pistol that was undoubtedly stolen from a car glove compartment or something during a routine car break in (assumptions, but you know what I mean). I survived the encounter because I didn't try to fumble in my bag for some gun I barely know how to use (in fact the first thing they did was grab my bag and frisk every inch of me). It was a crew, they were all business, and they got me. I walked away with my house keys and my empty wallet (note, they did NOT steal my ID). So yeah, that sort of thing has happened to me and I still, somehow, don't have fantasies about shooting a bunch of teenagers. Call me crazy.
- splithalf 6y ago
  I’m with you and personally dislike guns to a degree that many find weird but I think the issue is that gun violence is illegal in the first place and so making laws seeking to prevent it is ineffective at best and really just smacks of legislative hubris. I can get an illegal firearm easily, today. I can get an illegal gun much easier than I can a legal one. Most gun violence is committed by criminals. These problems are often denied by advocates for reform, and that doesn’t help their credibility with bipartisan independents wary of authoritarian government.
  - sn_master 6y ago
    Exactly. Outside the US, major gun holders are criminals who get them illegally. Even in the US, most criminals have their guns illegally because they can't get one legally after their first felony.

gigatexal 6y ago

I say let’s try it! Do a gun buy back. Ban new sales of assault rifles and high capacity magazines; institute longer more invasive (effective?) background checks (have a buyer have to see a shrink before buying? Makes sense to me.) Before moving to Germany I owned some guns for sport: my friends and I would go into the mountains to designated shooting areas and do target practice. If the hoops to get a gun were increased 10 fold it wouldn’t effect me at all.

gigatexal 6y ago
HN curiosity: I post the most practical gun-control things I can think of that veer rather draconian yet get down-voted because they're not enough? If you disagree, perhaps state why?
- throwaway53453 6y ago
  The definition of assault rifle is very poorly defined. There are dangerous weapons on both sides of the definition.
  - sn_master 6y ago
    Yes. Each time shooting happens I see 'analysts' thinking everything is full-auto only because of how it looks, and that automatically discredits them.
sn_master 6y ago
(I don't own a gun, not have intention of getting one myself) I get that for big cities with large police presence, but the US is very wide and has countless suburbs and small towns with very little law enforcement present. Please look up YouTube, you'll find many single moms and small families whose lives were saved because of guns, where it took law enforcement forever to reach them. I don't think seeing a 'shrink' would make much difference except for those with very obvious conditions than the gun shop would refuse selling to them anyway. Most psychiatrists are nothing like the movies portray them to be, and they can't deduce everything about you from a couple hours of talking unless you're in a real dire state of mind. Hell, most of the good ones even refuse to take new patients or have 6 months long waiting list, and only the new inexperienced ones are easy to get hold of. Source: Tried to find a psychiatrist myself couple years ago for depression.