5 ms·

Releasing cats in Australia to help marsupials adapt

33 points by clouddrover 6y ago

Grakel 6y ago
I wonder if this will have an effect on the mouse plague that Australia is currently going through.
- ludston 6y ago
  It won't. The recent flooding might though.
- EdwardDiego 6y ago
  Pretty sure the answer to that is no, given that it's only in a 12k hectare area.
- NikolaeVarius 6y ago
  I'm going to assume you didn't read the article, and is only replying to the subject, since the article is about trying to not do exactly what your comment is implying.
  - Grakel 6y ago
    You assume wrong, but that's ok. I'm referring to a general change in attitude about the approach to balancing predator and prey instead of trying to eliminate unwanted species with direct action, I didn't mean to imply that this specific study will fix the national level issue. Sorry of my initial comment needed further explanation.
nwatson 6y ago
Not my position but per some, feral-cat:marsupial :: COVID:human .
- EdwardDiego 6y ago
  Uh... ...pardon? We got Covid because of marsupials being predated by feral cats?
  - klyrs 6y ago
    No, the notation says that cats are to marsupials as covid is to humans. I think they're saying that cats are a plague on marsupials.
    - EdwardDiego 6y ago
      Ah, gotcha. Well, yes, but no. It really depends on the marsupial. I've seen a brushtail possum dominate a dog. And I'd bet on a Tasmanian devil or a thylacine (RIP) or a Thylacoleo carnifex (also RIP) against a feral cat any day of the week.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - nwatson 6y ago
        Cats are an evolutionary pressure on marsupials to make them "more fit" over generations and withstand future cats. Some want to let COVID run rampant so that likewise future human generations will be immune to it -- those people are fine with lots of grannies dying right now.
        JoeAltmaier 6y ago
        Heck lots of 50-year-olds who run marathons.
EdwardDiego 6y ago
Hmm, now this is an interesting approach. I wish it could be applied in NZ to help our endemic species deal with mustelids, but it would be highly contingent on the breeding rate of the prey species - bilbies and boodies (god I love Australian names for things) are pretty prolific breeders if conditions are right, but our highly vulnerable species[1][2] are the polar opposite, most likely an adaptation to prevent overpopulation. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_spotted_kiwi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_spotted_kiwi [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kakapo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kakapo After all, if you're nocturnal, and camouflaged, then your avian predators are going to have a hard time finding you, so your next problem is outgrowing your food supply, so breed slower. Also doesn't help that these species have very distinct scents. People I worked with as a ranger had specific overalls that they put on when handling kiwi because you could apparently never get the kiwi smell out. Kakapo apparently smell sorta mouldy, sorta fruity. Mammals are great at hunting by scent, birds hunt by sight, hence why introduced mustelids and dogs (and to a lesser extent, cats) massacred many of our birds.
- KineticLensman 6y ago
  > birds hunt by sight Many owls hunt by hearing, notably the Great Grey Owl [0] whose facial disk is essentially an antenna dish mounted on the front of their heads. They can locate prey hiding under snow, for example. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_grey_owl#Feeding https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_grey_owl#Feeding
  - EdwardDiego 6y ago
    Ah, you're right, I rather over generalised there, more correctly it's "the avian predators they evolved to avoid, hunt by sight". The native ruru/morepork owl hunts by sound, and I'm assuming the extinct endemic laughing owl hunted by sound also. (Apparently, it preferred to hunt on foot...!) But neither owl predated birds larger than a passerine.
    - KineticLensman 6y ago
      I also find it fascinating that many owls have evolved silent flight to avoid giving themselves away to prey with good hearing, even if the lack of preen-oil required makes them vulnerable to waterlogging in wet weather. (Thank you for introducing me to the Laughing Owl, although I was saddened to read that it's now extinct)
underseacables 6y ago
At last! Cats!
AzzieElbab 6y ago
releasing leopards and cheetahs to deal with kangaroos would be so much cooler
GVIrish 6y ago
"Some of you may die, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make" This is a pretty novel approach, gruesome though it is. I think a lot of conservation efforts do have to start trying more novel/radical measures to mitigate the damage from invasive species because the window to save some of these ecosystems is very unstable and extinction pressure is increasing. I hate that it has come to this, but in order to save some of the world's biodiversity, we're going to have to take a much active role at managing nature because so much damage has already been done.
aaron695 6y ago
> Inside the main barrier is a series of smaller fenced-in paddocks. Several years ago, Moseby decided to start adding cats into some of these. In a small area they have added cats to help train the natives that are part of the breeding program to learn cats are dangerous.
ngcc_hk 6y ago
First part is very interesting but the second part is very frightening. The reverse thinking to let cat back in so yang and Ying can adapt to each other instead of just fence without a system ... great thinking. If we have to edit our gene to flight pandemics would these scientists do the same to human. Understand the usual logic of dog bleeding etc but using lab and produce animal or plant that bred in the wild,I thought we stopped one firm and we avoid genetic modified food ourselves. And they just do it... It is not the intent of Einstein ....

33 points by clouddrover 6y ago

Grakel 6y ago

I wonder if this will have an effect on the mouse plague that Australia is currently going through.

ludston 6y ago
It won't. The recent flooding might though.
EdwardDiego 6y ago
Pretty sure the answer to that is no, given that it's only in a 12k hectare area.
NikolaeVarius 6y ago
I'm going to assume you didn't read the article, and is only replying to the subject, since the article is about trying to not do exactly what your comment is implying.
- Grakel 6y ago
  You assume wrong, but that's ok. I'm referring to a general change in attitude about the approach to balancing predator and prey instead of trying to eliminate unwanted species with direct action, I didn't mean to imply that this specific study will fix the national level issue. Sorry of my initial comment needed further explanation.

nwatson 6y ago

Not my position but per some, feral-cat:marsupial :: COVID:human .

EdwardDiego 6y ago
Uh... ...pardon? We got Covid because of marsupials being predated by feral cats?
- klyrs 6y ago
  No, the notation says that cats are to marsupials as covid is to humans. I think they're saying that cats are a plague on marsupials.
  - EdwardDiego 6y ago
    Ah, gotcha. Well, yes, but no. It really depends on the marsupial. I've seen a brushtail possum dominate a dog. And I'd bet on a Tasmanian devil or a thylacine (RIP) or a Thylacoleo carnifex (also RIP) against a feral cat any day of the week.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - nwatson 6y ago
      Cats are an evolutionary pressure on marsupials to make them "more fit" over generations and withstand future cats. Some want to let COVID run rampant so that likewise future human generations will be immune to it -- those people are fine with lots of grannies dying right now.
      - JoeAltmaier 6y ago
        Heck lots of 50-year-olds who run marathons.

EdwardDiego 6y ago

Hmm, now this is an interesting approach. I wish it could be applied in NZ to help our endemic species deal with mustelids, but it would be highly contingent on the breeding rate of the prey species - bilbies and boodies (god I love Australian names for things) are pretty prolific breeders if conditions are right, but our highly vulnerable species[1][2] are the polar opposite, most likely an adaptation to prevent overpopulation. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_spotted_kiwi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_spotted_kiwi [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kakapo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kakapo After all, if you're nocturnal, and camouflaged, then your avian predators are going to have a hard time finding you, so your next problem is outgrowing your food supply, so breed slower. Also doesn't help that these species have very distinct scents. People I worked with as a ranger had specific overalls that they put on when handling kiwi because you could apparently never get the kiwi smell out. Kakapo apparently smell sorta mouldy, sorta fruity. Mammals are great at hunting by scent, birds hunt by sight, hence why introduced mustelids and dogs (and to a lesser extent, cats) massacred many of our birds.

KineticLensman 6y ago
> birds hunt by sight Many owls hunt by hearing, notably the Great Grey Owl [0] whose facial disk is essentially an antenna dish mounted on the front of their heads. They can locate prey hiding under snow, for example. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_grey_owl#Feeding https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_grey_owl#Feeding
- EdwardDiego 6y ago
  Ah, you're right, I rather over generalised there, more correctly it's "the avian predators they evolved to avoid, hunt by sight". The native ruru/morepork owl hunts by sound, and I'm assuming the extinct endemic laughing owl hunted by sound also. (Apparently, it preferred to hunt on foot...!) But neither owl predated birds larger than a passerine.
  - KineticLensman 6y ago
    I also find it fascinating that many owls have evolved silent flight to avoid giving themselves away to prey with good hearing, even if the lack of preen-oil required makes them vulnerable to waterlogging in wet weather. (Thank you for introducing me to the Laughing Owl, although I was saddened to read that it's now extinct)

underseacables 6y ago

At last! Cats!

AzzieElbab 6y ago

releasing leopards and cheetahs to deal with kangaroos would be so much cooler

GVIrish 6y ago

"Some of you may die, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make" This is a pretty novel approach, gruesome though it is. I think a lot of conservation efforts do have to start trying more novel/radical measures to mitigate the damage from invasive species because the window to save some of these ecosystems is very unstable and extinction pressure is increasing. I hate that it has come to this, but in order to save some of the world's biodiversity, we're going to have to take a much active role at managing nature because so much damage has already been done.

aaron695 6y ago

> Inside the main barrier is a series of smaller fenced-in paddocks. Several years ago, Moseby decided to start adding cats into some of these. In a small area they have added cats to help train the natives that are part of the breeding program to learn cats are dangerous.

ngcc_hk 6y ago

First part is very interesting but the second part is very frightening. The reverse thinking to let cat back in so yang and Ying can adapt to each other instead of just fence without a system ... great thinking. If we have to edit our gene to flight pandemics would these scientists do the same to human. Understand the usual logic of dog bleeding etc but using lab and produce animal or plant that bred in the wild,I thought we stopped one firm and we avoid genetic modified food ourselves. And they just do it... It is not the intent of Einstein ....