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An ancient method that keeps Afghanistan's grapes fresh all winter
- FlyMoreRockets 6y agoThe article mentions it works best with thick skinned grapes. Muscadine grapes may be well suited for this technique. https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2017/09/26/551835327/muscadines-may-be-the-best-grapes-you-ve-never-tasted https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2017/09/26/551835327/mu...
- joshuaheard 6y agoAlso, the article mentioned that the grapes were harvested late in the season. This would mean they had a higher sugar content. The sugar would act as a preservative.
- jandrese 6y agoIt's probably a technique that has been slowly refined and perfected over the centuries. Selectively breeding grapes that preserve well, finding the correct mud and how much water to mix, working out that saucer shape and how many you can do at once. There are many years of gradual improvements baked into those grapes.
- dmarlow 6y agoI need to do more research and experimentation with moisture control for things I seal air tight.
- austincheney 6y agoI remember when I was there locals telling me Afghanistan had a fantastic variety of grape local to the area. They were once regularly farmed. The Taliban attempted to burn most of them down as grapes can be used to make wine which is not Halal. Nonetheless grapevines remained a beloved curiosity in Kabul largely for their aesthetics and low maintenance.
- max_hammer 6y agoOr Opimium is more profitable than grapes
- ilamont 6y ago25 years ago I travelled in the Taklamakan Basin which lies to the east of Afghanistan in Xinjiang, NW China. The local Uyghur people and their forebears had perfected over millennia various techniques related to growing and preserving grapes. It's a sub-sea level depression, one of the driest and hottest spots in Central Asia - so hot that local people warned me not to park my bicycle in the sun or the tires might burst. For thousands of years the people there have maintained underground irrigation channels which bring water from the mountains hundreds of km to the north to irrigate grapes and other crops. The covered channels go right through the towns and even in the early summer were filled with rushing water. Grape trellises were growing over many of the sidewalks throughout the city of Turpan (with stern signs in Arabic script and Chinese not to eat them, ignored by local kids) providing shade as well as grapes. The countryside nearby had these brick buildings with gaps between the bricks used for rapid drying of grapes to be made into the best raisins I've ever had.
- mc32 6y agoQuite interesting! Also what was the reason for the warning against eating?
- etimberg 6y agoExample of the vines in case anyone is also curious https://www.google.com/maps/@42.9532058,89.1822778,3a,75y,243.36h,88.3t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipNlxPGTjet5HcRrpKAXyOuSVISsMzyAHjr0-EwL!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipNlxPGTjet5HcRrpKAXyOuSVISsMzyAHjr0-EwL%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi-20-ya146-ro-0-fo100!7i9728!8i4860 https://www.google.com/maps/@42.9532058,89.1822778,3a,75y,24...
- ACAVJW4H 6y agoI once heard in central Anatolia people used to store grapes on the vine. They would trim the end of the vine, pluck one of the fresh grapes and stick it on the trimmed end. Finally vines would be hanged from the ceiling of a cool cellar. My grandfather told me that the nutrients and moisture within that one grape would keep the others alive for longer.
- hinkley 6y agoPeople do something similar with allium family plants as well. I think we’ve been doing this a lot longer than anyone really knows.
- raducu 6y agoI've seen the same thing done by my grandfather in Eastern Europe.
- raducu 6y agoActually I re-read OP's comment and that's not what my grandfather did. He just cut the whole vine with the grapes still on the vine. The anatolian process seems a bit more complicated, but I guess you cut less vine.
- ineedasername 6y agoActually the grape on the end is needed so the cellar knew it was the end of the vine. Otherwise the cellar would throw a compiler error.
- williesleg 6y agoPoppies?
- patrec 6y agoI wonder how the Korean newspaper in the second photo ended up in this Afghan village.
- achow 6y agoCould be due to Korean construction firms.
- slim 6y agomaybe it comes from foreign soldiers
- OldHand2018 6y agoI think it's the Korea Times. Look closely at the top right corner to the left of the page number A31. https://www.google.com/maps/@42.0674003,-87.8502797,3a,75y,29.54h,97.24t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s8vRBAnTh0f8Z32QLfuZ8uQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 https://www.google.com/maps/@42.0674003,-87.8502797,3a,75y,2... It probably came from American soldiers
- yongjik 6y agoIt's actually Chosun Ilbo - I searched for the phrases I can read, and found the matching article (2019 Oct 14). (See the article's title ending with "...아니다".) https://www.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2019/10/14/2019101400012.html https://www.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2019/10/14/2019101... So, almost certainly not from American soldiers.
- OldHand2018 6y agoNice detective work :)
- wazoox 6y agoYou can also keep bunches of grapes fresh for months in an attic by plunging the stems in a bottle of water. That's a method that has been used for centuries in Europe. See https://jardinage.lemonde.fr/dossier-2305-conserver-raisin-noel.html https://jardinage.lemonde.fr/dossier-2305-conserver-raisin-n...
- kebman 6y agoI've noticed that when you put a bag of potatoes in the fridge, they will still keep far shorter than if you had them in a dedicated potato cellar. Likewise, most of the old houses around the farmstead I grew up had unheated walk-in pantries next to the entrance. Often vegetables keep for far longer in those pantries than in the fridge. But of course the fridge beats out storing the veggies on the counter every time. Many of those farms also had standalone earthen cellars that served as "fridges" during the summer, often in conjunction with a small brook flowing with cold mountain water, where perishable things such as milk pails could be sunk into during warm summer days. Really wish I could have something like that in the city lol.
- nicoburns 6y agoPotatoes will keep for weeks as long as you keep them dark. They don't need to be particularly cold. Do people really keep potatoes in the fridge?
- brnt 6y agoIf you don't wash em, and ideally get them with a good coat of soil, potatoes can be stored till next summer.
- saiya-jin 6y agothat's how my parents & ancestors kept potatoes, one of staple foods in central/eastern europe - dirty with bits of earth, in non-heated dark room/place. They get the only wash just before cooking. Same for other crop like carrots, onions etc. They lasted from autumn harvest till, well, next autumn. Yes, they were a bit sprouty and wrinkled, but very much eadible.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- marci 6y agoIs there anything about potatoes that makes it obvious that a fridge is not required?
- YeGoblynQueenne 6y agoI can't get past the cookie banner. Can someone explain the ancient method for me please? Thank you :)
- gandalfian 6y agoPut grapes in a mud and straw bowl and seal over. Crack it open months later and grapes are still good. Nobody has studied it to be sure of the specifics.
- YeGoblynQueenne 6y agoThanks!
- slim 6y agomud tupperware
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- firasd 6y agoI've been wondering about a taxonomy of food preservation techniques. * Sealing (this technique seems to be a type of sealing) * Fermentation * Cooling * Dehydration * Removing specific elements like sugar etc I guess it all boils down to preventing germs from thriving (although I suppose there are other things that can happen too--food going dry or stale)
- 8fGTBjZxBcHq 6y agoYeah the general theme is depriving microorganisms of something they need to thrive in the food environment. Like dehydration lowers water activity, refrigeration keeps it outside their ideal temperature range etc. Fermentation doesn't really fit with the rest under that model though. In that case you're creating a good environment for some (halotolerant lactobacillus usually) because _their_ byproducts will make it too acidic for other things to thrive. So that's fundamentally different from just trying to make it universally hostile to microorganisms. Even within a simple technique like "sealing" here it really depends on the food itself and probably local factors like seasonal humidity and temp swings. A lot of fresh foods if sealed in an airtight container can make botulism. I'm pretty informed on this subject but I don't know why that doesn't happen with the grapes here. Must just not be present on them in large amounts, or the natural yeast competes with it, or something who knows. We think of these technologies as simple because they are beyond ancient and the actions you take to use them are basic. But there is a lot going on biologically and it seems at least somewhat understudied so far.
- hnick 6y agoFermentation usually goes along with sealing too, to give the good guys a head start and avoid contamination. I've been making kefir lately and it sure feels weird putting a jar of milk in the cupboard at room temperature for a day or two.
- samatman 6y agoA few techniques which involve adding something to the food: * Salt * Vinegar * Alcohol
- cycrutchfield 6y agoThis is pretty interesting. For those familiar with winemaking, there is a technique called carbonic maceration where grapes will self-ferment intracellularly in an anaerobic environment. Typically even if you don't artificially create an anaerobic environment (by pumping in CO2), if you put enough grapes in a sealed chamber the ones on the bottom will get crushed by the weight of the grapes above and the yeast living on the skins will kickstart carbonic maceration for the rest of the grapes (by producing CO2). That may be one reason why the containers they make to store the grapes are relatively shallow; a larger vessel such as a pot may inadvertently crush some grapes and lead to making wine instead of storing your grapes!
- programmertote 6y agoSomewhat related - pots made out of the earth/clay are very good at keeping the temperature cool. I wish we see more of them being used in western countries. I remember my family in Myanmar storing water in big pots made out of clay like this one [https://images.app.goo.gl/hG4bDGtn34QhmdxP8 https://images.app.goo.gl/hG4bDGtn34QhmdxP8]. The water that is stored there is super cold and very refreshing for summer use. People use similar, but smaller pots for storing drinking water in parts of the streets so that anyone can take a sip if they are thirsty: https://images.app.goo.gl/hG4bDGtn34QhmdxP8 https://images.app.goo.gl/hG4bDGtn34QhmdxP8 I wonder if my country, which is now undergoing a brutal military coup, still makes such pots these days....
- tecleandor 6y agoIn Spain we have the famous "botijo" that's used for keeping water cold, and also, for drinking. Thing is, this only works in dry climate. A friend with several Spanish restaurants in Japan brought some botijos with him, and being Tokyo very humid in summer, they didn't work at all and kept "sweating" water.
- tharkun__ 6y agoI'm curious how this works. My first theory is that clay pots will actually let water evaporate. Kind of like you need to water plants in terra cotta planters more often in summer. Evaporation having a cooling effect - like humans sweating.
- abandonliberty 6y agoThe botijo has the property that once filled, it cools the water that it contains, acting as an evaporative cooler..
- cedricd 6y agoNot sure if they make them still today, but I saw those pots for sale by the hundreds at a market in Bagan about 10 years ago.
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- quercus 6y agoAnother preservation technique I've seen is burying the fruit in ash.
- rsj_hn 6y agoThis reminds me of century eggs, which are also preserved in mud that makes an airtight seal. That takes care of everything except fermentation of the fruit itself, and for century eggs I think they use ash/lime: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century_egg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century_egg Sausages are also cured by killing the the bacteria inside with salts and smoking, and then putting them into a casing (the intestines) that defends against air from outside.
- etaioinshrdlu 6y agoWhat's preventing the grapes from fermenting?
- hnick 6y agoProbably not enough free moisture. The bowl is dried so a lot of free moisture from the mud cap or on the grapes would wick away into the structure. The grapes have moisture but a lot would be trapped in cellular structures, they are not mashed as is done for wine, or exposed to the elements or still 'active' like they would be on the vine or in the sun.
- nikolay 6y agoIn Bulgaria, people used to preserve apples by digging a hole in the ground and wrapping the apples in a thick layer of fern leaves and you have apples through the winter.