7 ms·

The Bank of England unveils design of new £50 banknote featuring Alan Turing

91 points by hardmaru 6y ago

madaxe_again 6y ago
It really is fantastic how wonderful the English government is. Mr Turing would be proud to be represented by such an brave and forward thinking group of people. It’s amazing how much has changed since his time, when he faced some legal difficulties for being gay - now, nobody is persecuted at all in England, and it’s all down to the brilliant government, who you can be sure Turing would have voted for. Edit: Make up your minds. Yesterday, you didn’t like it when I said they persecuted him and were using his name and image for propaganda purposes. Today, you don’t like it when I fawningly shower them with praise.
- vosper 6y ago
  This comment is satire, right? I’m going to assume yes, but in case it’s not, or others don’t feel it: “Some legal difficulties”?! They offered him chemical castration, which is utterly barbarous, as an alternative to prison. He was persecuted for his sexuality to the point that he preferred to kill himself.
  - madaxe_again 6y ago
    Yes, it’s satire. This topic was posted yesterday, and I said that the government murdered him, and now they want to use him for propaganda purposes, to show what a lovely, liberal, tolerant bunch they are. I was told in response (now edited, I see) that he was a criminal at the time, and should rightly have faced the penalty, and the government today aren’t responsible anyway, and actually they’re a very progressive bunch. Meanwhile they continue to debate conversion therapy, and are reducing rights and legal recourse for trans people. Oh, and not to forget the “hostile environment”.
    - xxs 6y ago
      Hacker news is extra bad when it comes to satire, pretty much uniquely bad unless it's a very common short sound bite meme.
  - xxs 6y ago
    >nobody is persecuted at all in England Should be quite the massive telling sign - a bill to effectively curb public demonstrations just passed. (also use of England instead of the UK but that's more subtle)
- riffraff 6y ago
  You should consider whether you are being downvoted because of your opinion or because of the way you are expressing it.
- DoingIsLearning 6y ago
  I mean this without mallice, ask yourself what are you adding to the discussion? From the HN guidelines at the bottom of this page: " In Comments Be kind. Don't be snarky. Have curious conversation; don't cross-examine. Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community. Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive."
  - madaxe_again 6y ago
    Oh, you can rely on my pre-coffee posts to add little other than bile. I almost wish I were banned from posting until the sun is over the yard arm. It does, however, really get my goat that otherwise intelligent people can fall for obvious and pernicious propaganda.
- redis_mlc 6y ago
  > nobody is persecuted at all in England I think you need to get caught up on your current affairs reading. London is a cesspool, as reported by local politicians.
jarmitage 6y ago
It’s a shame the bank note doesn’t feature the poison apple and a quote from his trial about chemical castration, so we can all remember that the English government drove its most important C20th scientist to suicide. They are also using his name for the post-Brexit international student exchange program, since Erasmus will be cancelled. Disgrace. Edit: I would rather have him celebrated in this way than not. But let’s not kid ourselves that he was not pardoned because of decades of public campaigning and bad PR for the government. Neither is this how the government should be atoning, by presenting Turing as just a scientist when he was far more than that - atonement should come in the form of progressive legislation for increased equalities and protections for the LGBT+ community.
- warent 6y ago
  Disagree with this... it has been thoroughly acknowledged with regretful apologies. There comes a time for healing so everyone can move forward. Plus, I don't know Alan Turing but it seems unlikely he would have wanted to be remembered for that.
  - madaxe_again 6y ago
    They did not apologise. They pardoned him, and other gay men convicted historically - which implies that they committed a crime, requiring a pardon, rather than the government acknowledging that its stance was wrong.
    - Veen 6y ago
      You are misinformed. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/sep/11/pm-apology-to-alan-turing https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/sep/11/pm-apology-to-...
      - sneak 6y ago
        > Acknowledging the strength of feeling, Brown wrote: "Thousands of people have come together to demand justice for Alan Turing and recognition of the appalling way he was treated. While Turing was dealt with under the law of the time and we can't put the clock back, his treatment was of course utterly unfair and I am pleased to have the chance to say how deeply sorry I and we all are for what happened to him. I'm not sure that "dealt with under the law of the time" rings quite the way it should. The fact that that was even mentioned is disgusting to me. They did apologize, however, although a lot of that seems to hinge on his brilliance and the fact that he may have caused them to win the war, which IMO shouldn't factor in to their apology at all. Where are the apologies to all of the others they tortured in this manner who aren't war heroes? What else are they doing to make this right besides talking?
alias_neo 6y ago
Its hard to imagine how any of my fellow Brits can look at this positively. During the man's life he was treated disgracefully when he should have been a hero, and now somehow putting the face of Alan Turing on a bank note makes things better? Let a lone a bank note that 90% of the population will never see or use.
- quattrofan 6y ago
  Or they do nothing? What exactly do you want? Most people I've spoken to in tech view it positively. But I guess people have to moan about everything these days.
  - alias_neo 6y ago
    Rather than asking your "people in tech" whose opinions are entirely irrelevant to the point of Turing's persecution, try asking people from demographics that continue to be persecuted purely because of _who_ they are. An assurance that this won't happen again would be a good start, along with some material attempts to right a wrong (I don't know what or how that looks I'm just discussing). I already saw the apology, but "sorry" is meaningless. Actions speak louder than words and all that. I know gay people who have been beaten up by strangers merely for walking down the street holding hands, this disgraceful behaviour continues to be a huge issue, and more needs to be done to combat it, that can start with the government taking more firm action to combat such hate crimes.
- simonh 6y ago
  The current government aren't personally responsible for what was done to him 70 years ago. The man was a hero, and the story of his life and treatment was important in my life. If this raises awareness of his contribution and the appalling way he was abused, and broadcasts to the world that the establishment today is firmly committed that such things must not happen again, I think that's a good thing. On the other hand, meanwhile children are being given hormone treatments with permanent consequences at the insistence of health professionals, only to regret it when it's too late. Maybe we've not learned as much as we thought. Still, whatever you think of that controversy, and there are definitely multiple sides to it, Turing is the perfect figure to act as a catalyst for public debate. We've still got a lot of these issues to work out.
raverbashing 6y ago
Also worth of note is this https://www.gchq.gov.uk/information/turing-challenge https://www.gchq.gov.uk/information/turing-challenge
02020202 6y ago
A bank note to remind you, every time you pay, that the government can castrate you and you can do fackall about it. Yeah, good times.
jozvolskyef 6y ago
Assets download link[1] is in the footnotes for anyone who'd like to view the Turing machine in high resolution. [1]: 80MB zip https://b-o-e.uk/TheNew50-PressPack https://b-o-e.uk/TheNew50-PressPack
sschueller 6y ago
I am glad to see Turing on the note I am also glad we (Switzerland) no longer put people on our bank notes which eliminates the constant arguments of who should be on them. When the British queen dies does Canada have to issue new notes?
- kleiba 6y ago
  When the British queen dies does Canada have to issue new notes? Obviously not.
  - dijit 6y ago
    Might _not_ be obvious since the majority of people did not live in the interim between King George and Queen Elizabeth - and given that monarchs on notes were not a fully realised thing before QEII. (Only Bank of Scotland did it + a few notes from the Bank of England, so it wasn’t so common and didn’t feel like a tradition) And that the “British” queen is still queen of Canada although under a separate title meaning a person could be the head monarch of Canada and not head monarch of Britain. But, to answer the original question: the coins issued under the reign of King George continued to be legal tender until they were phased out naturally, I think the process may have accelerated a bit but for sure there were people using money with King George until 1952.
    - timthorn 6y ago
      > there were people using money with King George until 1952. Shilling coins were in circulation until 1997 - it is really quite recently that King George on cash was phased out entirely.
      - Symbiote 6y ago
        31 December 1990, and 30 June 1993 for the florin (10p). A new, smaller 5p coin was introduced in June 1990, and the shilling-size 5p coin (and remaining shilling coins) were withdrawn at the end of that year. In theory, some very old shillings and florins from 1816 could still have been in circulation in 1990 and 1992. But, the Royal Mint and coin collectors would have removed those whenever they could (only pre-1947 ones by Mint for the silver content).
ginko 6y ago
Am I the only one to find it a bit lazy that they used a digitized photo instead of creating a proper engraved portrait by hand?
- redisman 6y ago
  Well if someone should have a computer generated portrait I can’t think of anyone better
walrus01 6y ago
As someone who occasionally has a need to use Canadian bank notes, I can tell you I am not looking forward to some day having polymer banknotes with a portrait of Charles on them. I'd rather do away with the ties to the monarchy entirely. Maybe we could use the budget from the Office of the Governor General for something more useful.
- jariel 6y ago
  You can move to the United States where they don't 'waste money' on 'old cultural things'. The amount saved for you would be equivalent to about 1/6 of a cup of coffee at Starbucks, so that's a win.
  - walrus01 6y ago
    Or maybe I just think Charles as a person is a despicable individual. Also, 45% of people are in favor of doing away with the ties to the monarchy. This is not exactly a rare and controversial opinion anymore. https://www.ctvnews.ca/lifestyle/canadians-desire-to-drop-monarchy-reaches-historic-level-poll-1.5330650 https://www.ctvnews.ca/lifestyle/canadians-desire-to-drop-mo... https://globalnews.ca/news/6496234/ipsos-poll-canada-monarchy/ https://globalnews.ca/news/6496234/ipsos-poll-canada-monarch... "The poll also noted that only 22 per cent of participants want to see Prince Charles, the first in line for the throne, become King after the Queen dies or abdicates, "
- HKH2 6y ago
  I can't wait. I don't understand how people can care about royal weddings etc., especially Americans, so it'll be quite funny to see his face on currency so people have to talk about it in contrast to how the queen at least commanded some respect.
fermienrico 6y ago
The number of posts with downvotes just shows how divisive and vengeful we’ve become. Can we get along and celebrate the simple thing that a brilliant computer scientist is being celebrated? The father of computing rather. What is wrong with you all? We are doing a disservice to Alan Turing’s legacy by bickering with our small minds. Shame on everyone here.
ChrisArchitect 6y ago
[dupe] Lots of yesterday discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26577349 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26577349

91 points by hardmaru 6y ago

It really is fantastic how wonderful the English government is. Mr Turing would be proud to be represented by such an brave and forward thinking group of people. It’s amazing how much has changed since his time, when he faced some legal difficulties for being gay - now, nobody is persecuted at all in England, and it’s all down to the brilliant government, who you can be sure Turing would have voted for. Edit: Make up your minds. Yesterday, you didn’t like it when I said they persecuted him and were using his name and image for propaganda purposes. Today, you don’t like it when I fawningly shower them with praise.

vosper 6y ago
This comment is satire, right? I’m going to assume yes, but in case it’s not, or others don’t feel it: “Some legal difficulties”?! They offered him chemical castration, which is utterly barbarous, as an alternative to prison. He was persecuted for his sexuality to the point that he preferred to kill himself.
- madaxe_again 6y ago
  Yes, it’s satire. This topic was posted yesterday, and I said that the government murdered him, and now they want to use him for propaganda purposes, to show what a lovely, liberal, tolerant bunch they are. I was told in response (now edited, I see) that he was a criminal at the time, and should rightly have faced the penalty, and the government today aren’t responsible anyway, and actually they’re a very progressive bunch. Meanwhile they continue to debate conversion therapy, and are reducing rights and legal recourse for trans people. Oh, and not to forget the “hostile environment”.
  - xxs 6y ago
    Hacker news is extra bad when it comes to satire, pretty much uniquely bad unless it's a very common short sound bite meme.
- xxs 6y ago
  >nobody is persecuted at all in England Should be quite the massive telling sign - a bill to effectively curb public demonstrations just passed. (also use of England instead of the UK but that's more subtle)
riffraff 6y ago
You should consider whether you are being downvoted because of your opinion or because of the way you are expressing it.
DoingIsLearning 6y ago
I mean this without mallice, ask yourself what are you adding to the discussion? From the HN guidelines at the bottom of this page: " In Comments Be kind. Don't be snarky. Have curious conversation; don't cross-examine. Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community. Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive."
- madaxe_again 6y ago
  Oh, you can rely on my pre-coffee posts to add little other than bile. I almost wish I were banned from posting until the sun is over the yard arm. It does, however, really get my goat that otherwise intelligent people can fall for obvious and pernicious propaganda.
redis_mlc 6y ago
> nobody is persecuted at all in England I think you need to get caught up on your current affairs reading. London is a cesspool, as reported by local politicians.

jarmitage 6y ago

It’s a shame the bank note doesn’t feature the poison apple and a quote from his trial about chemical castration, so we can all remember that the English government drove its most important C20th scientist to suicide. They are also using his name for the post-Brexit international student exchange program, since Erasmus will be cancelled. Disgrace. Edit: I would rather have him celebrated in this way than not. But let’s not kid ourselves that he was not pardoned because of decades of public campaigning and bad PR for the government. Neither is this how the government should be atoning, by presenting Turing as just a scientist when he was far more than that - atonement should come in the form of progressive legislation for increased equalities and protections for the LGBT+ community.

warent 6y ago
Disagree with this... it has been thoroughly acknowledged with regretful apologies. There comes a time for healing so everyone can move forward. Plus, I don't know Alan Turing but it seems unlikely he would have wanted to be remembered for that.
- madaxe_again 6y ago
  They did not apologise. They pardoned him, and other gay men convicted historically - which implies that they committed a crime, requiring a pardon, rather than the government acknowledging that its stance was wrong.
  - Veen 6y ago
    You are misinformed. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/sep/11/pm-apology-to-alan-turing https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/sep/11/pm-apology-to-...
    - sneak 6y ago
      > Acknowledging the strength of feeling, Brown wrote: "Thousands of people have come together to demand justice for Alan Turing and recognition of the appalling way he was treated. While Turing was dealt with under the law of the time and we can't put the clock back, his treatment was of course utterly unfair and I am pleased to have the chance to say how deeply sorry I and we all are for what happened to him. I'm not sure that "dealt with under the law of the time" rings quite the way it should. The fact that that was even mentioned is disgusting to me. They did apologize, however, although a lot of that seems to hinge on his brilliance and the fact that he may have caused them to win the war, which IMO shouldn't factor in to their apology at all. Where are the apologies to all of the others they tortured in this manner who aren't war heroes? What else are they doing to make this right besides talking?

alias_neo 6y ago

Its hard to imagine how any of my fellow Brits can look at this positively. During the man's life he was treated disgracefully when he should have been a hero, and now somehow putting the face of Alan Turing on a bank note makes things better? Let a lone a bank note that 90% of the population will never see or use.

quattrofan 6y ago
Or they do nothing? What exactly do you want? Most people I've spoken to in tech view it positively. But I guess people have to moan about everything these days.
- alias_neo 6y ago
  Rather than asking your "people in tech" whose opinions are entirely irrelevant to the point of Turing's persecution, try asking people from demographics that continue to be persecuted purely because of _who_ they are. An assurance that this won't happen again would be a good start, along with some material attempts to right a wrong (I don't know what or how that looks I'm just discussing). I already saw the apology, but "sorry" is meaningless. Actions speak louder than words and all that. I know gay people who have been beaten up by strangers merely for walking down the street holding hands, this disgraceful behaviour continues to be a huge issue, and more needs to be done to combat it, that can start with the government taking more firm action to combat such hate crimes.
simonh 6y ago
The current government aren't personally responsible for what was done to him 70 years ago. The man was a hero, and the story of his life and treatment was important in my life. If this raises awareness of his contribution and the appalling way he was abused, and broadcasts to the world that the establishment today is firmly committed that such things must not happen again, I think that's a good thing. On the other hand, meanwhile children are being given hormone treatments with permanent consequences at the insistence of health professionals, only to regret it when it's too late. Maybe we've not learned as much as we thought. Still, whatever you think of that controversy, and there are definitely multiple sides to it, Turing is the perfect figure to act as a catalyst for public debate. We've still got a lot of these issues to work out.

raverbashing 6y ago

Also worth of note is this https://www.gchq.gov.uk/information/turing-challenge https://www.gchq.gov.uk/information/turing-challenge

02020202 6y ago

A bank note to remind you, every time you pay, that the government can castrate you and you can do fackall about it. Yeah, good times.

jozvolskyef 6y ago

Assets download link[1] is in the footnotes for anyone who'd like to view the Turing machine in high resolution. [1]: 80MB zip https://b-o-e.uk/TheNew50-PressPack https://b-o-e.uk/TheNew50-PressPack

sschueller 6y ago

I am glad to see Turing on the note I am also glad we (Switzerland) no longer put people on our bank notes which eliminates the constant arguments of who should be on them. When the British queen dies does Canada have to issue new notes?

kleiba 6y ago
When the British queen dies does Canada have to issue new notes? Obviously not.
- dijit 6y ago
  Might _not_ be obvious since the majority of people did not live in the interim between King George and Queen Elizabeth - and given that monarchs on notes were not a fully realised thing before QEII. (Only Bank of Scotland did it + a few notes from the Bank of England, so it wasn’t so common and didn’t feel like a tradition) And that the “British” queen is still queen of Canada although under a separate title meaning a person could be the head monarch of Canada and not head monarch of Britain. But, to answer the original question: the coins issued under the reign of King George continued to be legal tender until they were phased out naturally, I think the process may have accelerated a bit but for sure there were people using money with King George until 1952.
  - timthorn 6y ago
    > there were people using money with King George until 1952. Shilling coins were in circulation until 1997 - it is really quite recently that King George on cash was phased out entirely.
    - Symbiote 6y ago
      31 December 1990, and 30 June 1993 for the florin (10p). A new, smaller 5p coin was introduced in June 1990, and the shilling-size 5p coin (and remaining shilling coins) were withdrawn at the end of that year. In theory, some very old shillings and florins from 1816 could still have been in circulation in 1990 and 1992. But, the Royal Mint and coin collectors would have removed those whenever they could (only pre-1947 ones by Mint for the silver content).

ginko 6y ago

Am I the only one to find it a bit lazy that they used a digitized photo instead of creating a proper engraved portrait by hand?

redisman 6y ago
Well if someone should have a computer generated portrait I can’t think of anyone better

walrus01 6y ago

As someone who occasionally has a need to use Canadian bank notes, I can tell you I am not looking forward to some day having polymer banknotes with a portrait of Charles on them. I'd rather do away with the ties to the monarchy entirely. Maybe we could use the budget from the Office of the Governor General for something more useful.

jariel 6y ago
You can move to the United States where they don't 'waste money' on 'old cultural things'. The amount saved for you would be equivalent to about 1/6 of a cup of coffee at Starbucks, so that's a win.
- walrus01 6y ago
  Or maybe I just think Charles as a person is a despicable individual. Also, 45% of people are in favor of doing away with the ties to the monarchy. This is not exactly a rare and controversial opinion anymore. https://www.ctvnews.ca/lifestyle/canadians-desire-to-drop-monarchy-reaches-historic-level-poll-1.5330650 https://www.ctvnews.ca/lifestyle/canadians-desire-to-drop-mo... https://globalnews.ca/news/6496234/ipsos-poll-canada-monarchy/ https://globalnews.ca/news/6496234/ipsos-poll-canada-monarch... "The poll also noted that only 22 per cent of participants want to see Prince Charles, the first in line for the throne, become King after the Queen dies or abdicates, "
HKH2 6y ago
I can't wait. I don't understand how people can care about royal weddings etc., especially Americans, so it'll be quite funny to see his face on currency so people have to talk about it in contrast to how the queen at least commanded some respect.

fermienrico 6y ago

The number of posts with downvotes just shows how divisive and vengeful we’ve become. Can we get along and celebrate the simple thing that a brilliant computer scientist is being celebrated? The father of computing rather. What is wrong with you all? We are doing a disservice to Alan Turing’s legacy by bickering with our small minds. Shame on everyone here.

ChrisArchitect 6y ago

[dupe] Lots of yesterday discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26577349 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26577349