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There are several (many?) cases where given a certain set of circumstances officers are allowed to shot an unarmed fleeing individual. One that immediately jump

There are several (many?) cases where given a certain set of circumstances officers are allowed to shot an unarmed fleeing individual. One that immediately jumps to mind is an inmate attempting escape from prison. Even in blue states correctional officers have legal authority to shoot prisoners attempting escape. (PS I’m not a police officer or a CO.) these are laws on the books. They can be changed (if you think they should be).

kmonsen 6y ago
Thanks, I was mostly just wondering what the law is and what could have happened here. I don’t think police, or correctional officer, should ever shot at someone running away. Perhaps I’m naïve.
tremon 6y ago
In my mind, an escaping convict is not the same as a "fleeing suspect" though (the term the GP used). A convict has already had its day in court, so the presumption of innocence doesn't apply.
- williamtwild 6y ago
  Not everyone in jail have had thier day in court. I dont know if there are different rules for different types of incarceration facilities.
  - packetlost 6y ago
    Jail and prison are often used interchangeably by general society, but they actually refer to different things. Jail is generally temporary place of confinement for those awaiting trial or for minor crimes with short sentences. Prison, on the other hand, is a more "permanent" incarceration facility where inmates have been tried and convicted of crimes. Source: https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/jail-vs-prison-difference https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/jail-vs-prison...
    - 8note 6y ago
      Tried and convicted of crimes or bullied by police officers into accepting some minimal sentence via plea bargain, even if they had no relation to the crime at hand
- Spivak 6y ago
  Hard disagree here. Let's assume that we know for sure that the person escaping prison was tried and convicted in court even though that might not actually be the case. The crime they're now committing is escaping jail/prison which is something they haven't had their day in court for yet. But fine, let's assume that in the terms & conditions for escaping jail/prison include a default presumption of guilt and you don't need a second hearing. Is the punishment for escaping jail/prison death or injury? Nope!
  - ruined 6y ago
    Prison is the most total and comprehensive control over an individual that one can implement, short of brain-in-a-jar fantasies or outright execution. Violence, and the threat of injury or death, are irredeemably and inseparably part of any prison system. Prison would not be prison if an inmate could safely leave. You may hold an ideal of presumed innocence in society at large, but prison is the implementation of determined guilt. Failing to acknowledge that is a disservice to those in bondage.
    - sammax 6y ago
      Other nations somehow manage with prison systems that don't just shoot convicts who are trying to escape. I believe there are even nations where trying to escape from prison (or successfully escaping) is not a criminal offense itself.
    - Spivak 6y ago
      > Violence, and the threat of injury or death, are irredeemably and inseparably part of any prison system. Or it could just not be. We as a people get to ultimately decide if this is the case. My ideal prison system would just “you’re grounded” but for adults. You can go to your job, or go to school, but you’re monitored and have to report to prison right after. To me it’s a very natural escalation of house arrest, treats prisoners with more dignity, and doesn’t screw them for the rest of their lives. Yes fine we have to deal with people who are an immediate threat to the people around them. But that’s the exceptional case in the US prison system and can go by different rules. Locking people in cages is so stupid. Like even if you have no empathy towards prisoners as people it makes no sense to waste their lives when they could be contributing to society.

kmonsen 6y ago

Thanks, I was mostly just wondering what the law is and what could have happened here. I don’t think police, or correctional officer, should ever shot at someone running away. Perhaps I’m naïve.

tremon 6y ago

In my mind, an escaping convict is not the same as a "fleeing suspect" though (the term the GP used). A convict has already had its day in court, so the presumption of innocence doesn't apply.

williamtwild 6y ago
Not everyone in jail have had thier day in court. I dont know if there are different rules for different types of incarceration facilities.
- packetlost 6y ago
  Jail and prison are often used interchangeably by general society, but they actually refer to different things. Jail is generally temporary place of confinement for those awaiting trial or for minor crimes with short sentences. Prison, on the other hand, is a more "permanent" incarceration facility where inmates have been tried and convicted of crimes. Source: https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/jail-vs-prison-difference https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/jail-vs-prison...
  - 8note 6y ago
    Tried and convicted of crimes or bullied by police officers into accepting some minimal sentence via plea bargain, even if they had no relation to the crime at hand
Spivak 6y ago
Hard disagree here. Let's assume that we know for sure that the person escaping prison was tried and convicted in court even though that might not actually be the case. The crime they're now committing is escaping jail/prison which is something they haven't had their day in court for yet. But fine, let's assume that in the terms & conditions for escaping jail/prison include a default presumption of guilt and you don't need a second hearing. Is the punishment for escaping jail/prison death or injury? Nope!
- ruined 6y ago
  Prison is the most total and comprehensive control over an individual that one can implement, short of brain-in-a-jar fantasies or outright execution. Violence, and the threat of injury or death, are irredeemably and inseparably part of any prison system. Prison would not be prison if an inmate could safely leave. You may hold an ideal of presumed innocence in society at large, but prison is the implementation of determined guilt. Failing to acknowledge that is a disservice to those in bondage.
  - sammax 6y ago
    Other nations somehow manage with prison systems that don't just shoot convicts who are trying to escape. I believe there are even nations where trying to escape from prison (or successfully escaping) is not a criminal offense itself.
  - Spivak 6y ago
    > Violence, and the threat of injury or death, are irredeemably and inseparably part of any prison system. Or it could just not be. We as a people get to ultimately decide if this is the case. My ideal prison system would just “you’re grounded” but for adults. You can go to your job, or go to school, but you’re monitored and have to report to prison right after. To me it’s a very natural escalation of house arrest, treats prisoners with more dignity, and doesn’t screw them for the rest of their lives. Yes fine we have to deal with people who are an immediate threat to the people around them. But that’s the exceptional case in the US prison system and can go by different rules. Locking people in cages is so stupid. Like even if you have no empathy towards prisoners as people it makes no sense to waste their lives when they could be contributing to society.