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> the law abiding people stress over the bribes I think you mean you stress over the bribes. There are many people who are accustomed to handling such minor co

> the law abiding people stress over the bribes I think you mean you stress over the bribes. There are many people who are accustomed to handling such minor corruption and yet are not corrupt themselves. They know how to handle it with minimum anxiety or disruption to their lives. Obviously it would be preferred it the corruption wouldn't exist, but I think you are also projecting your anxiety on others. Secondly, the likely reason they can't charge more is that these prices are likely set by some person or system higher up than them, yet they are taking more on top of that official price. Thus, if the price were raised, it wouldn't be going to those who are doing the graft. Your premise of "just charge higher prices" misunderstands the nature of the prices and the market. Again, I'm not saying I like corrupt systems. I very much dislike them and think they are one of the primary causes preventing many developing countries from as quickly catching up to developed countries. But to fix them, we need to understand them, and saying "just internalize the bribery cost into the official price" misses the reason it exists in the first place.

ohazi 6y ago
"The port authority should raise prices without changing pay or (dis)incentive structures for low level officials" seems like a straw-man, and I don't think that's what OP meant. You can pay the pilots and low-level officials more money and implement "There are lots of other people who want your cushy job -- you will be summarily fired if you are caught soliciting bribes" policies as well as surveillance and reporting systems to enforce them. This requires political will from the people at the top, and often results in anger from the people at the bottom, so it doesn't usually happen until the bribery problem is out of control. Argentina is a good example. Maritime cargo hold inspectors famously made a habit of soliciting larger and larger bribes. They became an outlier, and eventually the shipping companies started to notice, and they put pressure on Argentina to clean up: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22581590 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22581590
mucholove 6y ago
Totally agree with you that raising the price won’t solve the problem. I do have to disagree with you on one point: that there are people who are not corrput themselves who function well within the system. Corruption begins with good intentions. Crime begins with bad intentions. Every single act makes the complicit lose the corrupt because what a non-corrupt person would do is fight it. Are the complicit less bad? Would they rather have it another way? Yes. Yes. Still, they are corroding every time they choose not to fight (even if it comes at great personal cost)
DangerousPie 6y ago
I don't think you can be paying bribes while claiming not to be corrupt yourself. By participating in corruption you are enabling it. In some places there might be no way around that but that's why I don't go to those places.

ohazi 6y ago

"The port authority should raise prices without changing pay or (dis)incentive structures for low level officials" seems like a straw-man, and I don't think that's what OP meant. You can pay the pilots and low-level officials more money and implement "There are lots of other people who want your cushy job -- you will be summarily fired if you are caught soliciting bribes" policies as well as surveillance and reporting systems to enforce them. This requires political will from the people at the top, and often results in anger from the people at the bottom, so it doesn't usually happen until the bribery problem is out of control. Argentina is a good example. Maritime cargo hold inspectors famously made a habit of soliciting larger and larger bribes. They became an outlier, and eventually the shipping companies started to notice, and they put pressure on Argentina to clean up: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22581590 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22581590

mucholove 6y ago

Totally agree with you that raising the price won’t solve the problem. I do have to disagree with you on one point: that there are people who are not corrput themselves who function well within the system. Corruption begins with good intentions. Crime begins with bad intentions. Every single act makes the complicit lose the corrupt because what a non-corrupt person would do is fight it. Are the complicit less bad? Would they rather have it another way? Yes. Yes. Still, they are corroding every time they choose not to fight (even if it comes at great personal cost)

DangerousPie 6y ago

I don't think you can be paying bribes while claiming not to be corrupt yourself. By participating in corruption you are enabling it. In some places there might be no way around that but that's why I don't go to those places.