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Elon Musk Is a Con Artist: Tesla’s Full Self-Driving Scam Revisited

19 points by camjohnson26 6y ago

neatze 6y ago
While this topic is interesting; on one hand, ironically the video is so overdramatized in presentation* it is a bit cringe to watch, on another hand, unfortunately, it is socially acceptable, for now, to make exuberant and unsubstantiated claims. In my opinion financial industry does not work in same way without consequences.
- Fricken 6y ago
  How is the video dramatized? It's a series of clips of Elon lying from his mouth, a series of testimonials from fans who ate the lies up. No claim made by Elon needed to be manipulated or exaggerated or miscontextualized to emphasize the point being made. It was obvious and apparent to those in the self driving car industry that Tesla's hw3 hardware would be insufficient for full self driving; and even if it wasn't, saying that developing level 5 is now just a software problem is a massive and egregious understatement. I tried to inform fans about this on many occasions from the day the HW3 specs first dropped, and I'm sure you can imagine how well those efforts went over. These are Tesla fans, who, in some cases were buying Teslas they couldn't afford under the sincere belief that the vehicle would pay for itself in a few years when they start farming it out as a robotaxi.
  - Arbalest 6y ago
    The video is dramatised mostly in it's presentation. Look at the way the clips are cut together, the shadow framing of some scenes, the music. Seeing that dramatic presentation is a heuristic for dishonest data because, let's face it: Mass media does this all the time. But when I saw the comment, I was thinking the same as you. He's the most direct source of marketing information and technical claims.
easton_s 6y ago
He is neither the savior of humankind or a con man. Both claims are hyperbolic and are easily dismissed by evidence.
- mdbug 6y ago
  Show me the evidence that shows full self driving is not a scam!
  - Arbalest 6y ago
    Different question to whether Elon Musk is a Con Artist. Con artist would imply that there is no intent to deliver. It also suggests that all efforts he makes are for the purpose of obtaining money without delivery. While this dishonest conduct should be made clear, evidence that self driving is a scam does not make him only a con artist. Conversely, evidence that it isn't a scam doesn't really make him a saint. That's the nuance that the grandparent was trying to convey.
    - mdbug 6y ago
      I'm not sure if those are really necessary criteria to be considered a con artist. But even if they are, the email correspondence with California DMV in which they admit that FSD is not suitable and planned for autonomous driving implies just that: No intend to deliver. [1] [1] https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a35785277/tesla-fsd-california-self-driving/ https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a35785277/tesla-fsd-califo...
camjohnson26 6y ago
Video got taken down from YouTube and Vimeo, abuse of the DMCA it looks like. https://t.co/LCNtjvBwIo https://t.co/LCNtjvBwIo
icapulet2 6y ago
Mirror: https://www.veoh.com/watch/v142103958tzjgSYSk https://www.veoh.com/watch/v142103958tzjgSYSk

19 points by camjohnson26 6y ago

While this topic is interesting; on one hand, ironically the video is so overdramatized in presentation* it is a bit cringe to watch, on another hand, unfortunately, it is socially acceptable, for now, to make exuberant and unsubstantiated claims. In my opinion financial industry does not work in same way without consequences.

Fricken 6y ago
How is the video dramatized? It's a series of clips of Elon lying from his mouth, a series of testimonials from fans who ate the lies up. No claim made by Elon needed to be manipulated or exaggerated or miscontextualized to emphasize the point being made. It was obvious and apparent to those in the self driving car industry that Tesla's hw3 hardware would be insufficient for full self driving; and even if it wasn't, saying that developing level 5 is now just a software problem is a massive and egregious understatement. I tried to inform fans about this on many occasions from the day the HW3 specs first dropped, and I'm sure you can imagine how well those efforts went over. These are Tesla fans, who, in some cases were buying Teslas they couldn't afford under the sincere belief that the vehicle would pay for itself in a few years when they start farming it out as a robotaxi.
- Arbalest 6y ago
  The video is dramatised mostly in it's presentation. Look at the way the clips are cut together, the shadow framing of some scenes, the music. Seeing that dramatic presentation is a heuristic for dishonest data because, let's face it: Mass media does this all the time. But when I saw the comment, I was thinking the same as you. He's the most direct source of marketing information and technical claims.

easton_s 6y ago

He is neither the savior of humankind or a con man. Both claims are hyperbolic and are easily dismissed by evidence.

mdbug 6y ago
Show me the evidence that shows full self driving is not a scam!
- Arbalest 6y ago
  Different question to whether Elon Musk is a Con Artist. Con artist would imply that there is no intent to deliver. It also suggests that all efforts he makes are for the purpose of obtaining money without delivery. While this dishonest conduct should be made clear, evidence that self driving is a scam does not make him only a con artist. Conversely, evidence that it isn't a scam doesn't really make him a saint. That's the nuance that the grandparent was trying to convey.
  - mdbug 6y ago
    I'm not sure if those are really necessary criteria to be considered a con artist. But even if they are, the email correspondence with California DMV in which they admit that FSD is not suitable and planned for autonomous driving implies just that: No intend to deliver. [1] [1] https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a35785277/tesla-fsd-california-self-driving/ https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a35785277/tesla-fsd-califo...

camjohnson26 6y ago

Video got taken down from YouTube and Vimeo, abuse of the DMCA it looks like. https://t.co/LCNtjvBwIo https://t.co/LCNtjvBwIo

icapulet2 6y ago

Mirror: https://www.veoh.com/watch/v142103958tzjgSYSk https://www.veoh.com/watch/v142103958tzjgSYSk