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Red Hat statement about RMS’s return to the Free Software Foundation board
- bondarchuk 6y agoflagged in 3.., 2.., 1...
- __blockcipher__ 6y agoI hate that you’re right. What is it with people flagging as an uber downvote?!
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- chomp 6y agoThere's been SO MANY Stallman articles the past few days, by this point there's nothing new to add. Everyone is just rehashing the same arguments and there's nothing new or interesting here. There are over TWENTY of these that have hit the front page in the last week. There's plenty of discussion to be had on those if you are looking for input on this development. We don't need a new front page article for each company or organization or blogger trotting out their for/against statement on Stallman at this point.
- surroy 6y agoI think the interesting part is which organizations condemn RMS and how they do it. The crown goes to Debian, which wrote a pamphlet that could originate from a real ministry of propaganda. So it is important to know who to support in the future, which would be an argument for leaving these submissions up.
- liaukovv 6y agoShouldn't it be "corpse of red hat"?
- disposekinetics 6y agoThis is an effective way to kill off the last bit of goodwill I had for RH.
- pieter_mj 6y agoExactly. It's not Red Hat anymore, it's IBM.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- 542458 6y agoThe FSF seems to be burning goodwill at an alarming rate. Honestly, they would have been better off either taking RMS off the board for good or doing nothing at all - this back-and-forth just ensures everybody is unhappy with them (and is probably another sign that their leadership could use a shakeup).
- __blockcipher__ 6y agoI don’t know if it’s fair to say that the FSF is burning goodwill so much that the culture war has fully consumed tech and this is just the next battlefront. We have organizations openly advocating for discriminatory hiring based off race/sex/gender identity/sexuality. It’s a bit deeper than RMS not wanting to use the singular they or him asking the questions about pedophilia / consent that good neurotypical people know not to ask. IDK, I get what you’re saying that they chose to reinstate him. But this feels more like a moral panic than a victory for ethics to me. You might not be surprised to know that most people at my organization are very in favor of all this stuff so I recognize I’m in the minority here
- mrverify 6y agoI would call this more of a culture self-implosion than war. The end game for the winning side is a civilization where nobody can interact for fear of running afoul of ever changing--potentially ex-post facto--rules.
- __blockcipher__ 6y ago> fear of running afoul of ever changing--potentially ex-post facto--rules. And if it’s not clear, that’s a feature, not a bug.
- pm90 6y agoThis is the right move by Red Hat. It is appalling how tone deaf this move by FSF has been in light of the circumstances that we live in today. Its genuinely disturbing to see this wellspring of the modern computing ecosystem become corrupted like this. They had an opportunity to change which they seemingly took in 2019 but I guess they didn't really mean it.
- liaukovv 6y agoWhat circumstances are these? Mobs going around digging up whatever they can to bully people?
- pm90 6y ago> Mobs going around digging up whatever they can to bully people? Vulnerable parts of our community coming forward with their experiences allowing us to understand the pain they experienced due to tone deaf comments and actions by those that were held in high esteem. I would like the community to be welcoming to people of every background. Actions and comments that constitute harassment absolutely should not be tolerated, especially from those who are entrusted with power.
- liaukovv 6y agoWhat constitutes harrassment is defined by internal state of the receiving side. I don't think we should be obligated to read everybody's mind at all times. The only standards communication should be held to is honesty and good will.
- pm90 6y ago> I don't think we should be obligated to read everybody's mind at all times. The only standards communication should be held to is honesty and good will. Strawman argument. Nobody's arguing this. The expectation is not perfection, but a certain minimum standard of respect and understanding from those who hold power. Nobody is asking for him to be imprisoned over his comments. But his comments and actions have clearly shown that he lacks the skills required to be in a leadership position in the community.
- antattack 6y agoVirtue signaling is part of corporate DNA.
- betwixthewires 6y ago> We look forward to working with the FSF and others to enable the FSF to once again become an effective and trusted advocacy organization in line with its chartered non-profit mission. Translation: cave to the mob if you want our money.
- mc32 6y agoIf he committed a crime then he should suffer consequences, but this kind of politicking and posturing is unproductive. You’ll end up with spineless yes people who don’t push back and also do nothing but do PR (virtue signal the latest fad).
- 542458 6y agoThere's a lot of room between "things that are crimes" and "things that alienate to wide swaths of the population, and therefore make you a poor choice for an ambassador".
- mc32 6y agoI bet IBM’s actions and decisions over the years which due to bean counting, cost cutting or managerial incompetence has resulted in poor life experiences for tons of fired employees. Do they get to call for the management to get fired? Maybe their competitors get to call them out. I mean the result of firings is measurably worse than being weirded out by an anti social guy.
- cskinner 6y agoParticularly when those firings were a biased process resulting in age discrimination [0]. [0] https://www.forbes.com/sites/sheilacallaham/2020/09/20/eeoc-finding-of-age-discrimination-against-ibm-signals-new-requisite-for-diversity-equity-and-inclusion/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/sheilacallaham/2020/09/20/eeoc-...
- mc32 6y ago
- castis 6y agoFor the uninitiated: why was this a bad move by FSF?
- liaukovv 6y agoCorporate masters didn't like it.
- pm90 6y agohttps://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/03/free-software-advocates-seek-removal-of-richard-stallman-and-entire-fsf-board/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/03/free-software-ad... has more context, from a fairly neutral publication.
- sildur 6y agoThat "article" is anything but neutral. These articles are a better source: https://sterling-archermedes.github.io/ https://sterling-archermedes.github.io/ https://www.wetheweb.org/post/cancel-we-the-web https://www.wetheweb.org/post/cancel-we-the-web
- caeril 6y agoBecause they haven't yet learned that we live under the boot of a new authoritarianism. This move should be sufficient to get them to understand who their masters are, and to get back in line, though. RMS will be out by month's end, and all will be well again.
- 542458 6y agoSome time ago Richard Stallman became a controversial figure due to several things: * His written defenses of "consensual" pedophilia and defenses of ownership of child pornography, as well as calls for parents of babies with disabilities to have abortions * An email around the definition of "Rape" with regards to Marvin Minsky allegedly having sex with a 17 year old member of Epstein's harem * A sign that was on the door of his MIT office decalring him to be the "Knight for Justic (also: Hot Women)" * Allegations from several women that he would aggressively hit on them and not take no for an answer After the controversy, the FSF took him off the board. The FSF has now flip flopped on this and put him back on the board.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- vbezhenar 6y agoThat's disappointing. I love RMS and I love Redhat. I guess I'll just switch to Windows. Does Microsoft love RMS?
- pm90 6y ago> Does Microsoft love RMS? No
- __blockcipher__ 6y agoI find it cute that they even uttered that question non-ironically. Hot of the presses: a pawn of IBM on the one hand and Microsoft on the other both oppose a free software advocacy group that fought against everything Microsoft/IBM stand for! Shocking, I tell you!
- b0sk 6y agohttps://www.microsoft.com/en-us/diversity/default.aspx https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/diversity/default.aspx i think you should write your own OS
- rvz 6y agoWell that's a good idea. Perhaps an OS that just works is a start.
- joecot 6y agoMaybe try out NetBSD, I'm sure you'll love Theo de Raadt
- elric 6y agoTDR was booted from the NetBSD team back in 1994 ... He then founded OpenBSD and has been working on it since.
- uncledave 6y agoBetween the horrible centralisation of Linux under red hat, the treatment of centos users, jumping in bed with Microsoft and selling out to IBM, I have no appetite for a round of moral high grounding from a cookie cutter corporate mouthpiece.
- rvz 6y agoThe witch/wizard hunting has already begun and it is lead by the individuals at those companies who are on their moral high horses digging for old tweets, interviews and blog-posts to cancel anyone for their past sins. At this point, it is not going to ever stop until it happens to them.
- tittenfick 6y agoI can't believe how many people in every comment section there are who defend RMS. He's a genius for sure, but the dude is just an awful public figure, there is a reason he's being memed to death and it's because he takes every chance to make a fool out of himself when is presenting something. The stuff he said about pedophilia is frankly disgusting and the things about homo- and transphobia just shocking. He is extremely intelligent, but only in this highly specific area. He is completely oblivious to everything else around him and just awful with people. Quite the important skill for somebody in a representative position.
- SamReidHughes 6y agoThe policy Red Hat urges the FSF to follow is to discriminate by race, sex, and national origin when appointing its president and members of its board. Does Red Hat also do this when hiring its own employees?
- crazypython 6y agoIt's not a matter of whether they use his software. It's a matter of, he posts hundreds of posts on his personal blog condemning rape, and they cherry-pick the one post where he argued for a different definition of rape.[0] He is accused of being transphobic despite asking everyone to "honor their preferences about their gender identity" with respect to pronouns: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26584613 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26584613 After Stallman condemned the rape of a 17 year old girl in the Epstein case, Marvin Minksy had sex with the girl, unaware the girl was being coerced by Epstein. In accordance with the law of Canada and most U.S. states, it is legal to have sex with a 16 year old girl. Nonetheless, the open letter accused him of pedophilia. The letter also claimed that for thirty years, had an unacceptable way of asking women out on dates. He can be taught a better way to ask women out. He has never been accused of groping or sexual assault. The "sexual harassment for decades" Stallman did was asking out women in a creepy way. The original open letter's Appendix has two true claims (and one false claim I won't address here): - In 1999, he had a mattress in his office which he slept on. This made some women avoid RMS because they considered it abnormal and creepy. - In 1985, he told a woman he'd kill himself if he didn't date her. [0]: Ctrl-F this for "rape": https://web.archive.org/web/20210325013942/https://stallman.org/archives/2018-may-aug.html https://web.archive.org/web/20210325013942/https://stallman....
- mc32 6y agoIt’s such hypocrisy going around. We still have “rape-rape” Whoopi Goldberg on TV but that’s okay.
- dvfjsdhgfv 6y ago> Marvin Minksy had sex with the girl No, you can't claim that! It gets repeated everywhere but so far we only know that [0]: > Virginia Giuffre testified in a 2015 deposition in her defamation lawsuit against Epstein associate Ghislaine Maxwell that Maxwell directed her to have sex with Minsky among others. There has been no allegation that sex between them took place nor a lawsuit against Minsky's estate. Minsky's widow, Gloria Rudisch, says that he could not have had sex with any of the women at Epstein's residences, as they were always together during all of the visits to Epstein's residences. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_Minsky#Association_with_Jeffrey_Epstein https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_Minsky#Association_with...
- ezoe 6y agoIt's really absurd that the claim RMS was condemned about is a proposition that an act without intention is not a crime. That is, if a Mavin Minsky had a sex with a person whose age is less than the legal age without knowing a person's age, it's not a crime. At least, that's true in my jurisdiction. And there still is no proof Marvin Minsky had a sex in Epistein's place. Nobody claimed that, even the victim women at that time. Social Justice Warrior movement is gone extreme in RMS's case.
- angry_octet 6y ago@dang -- Flagging a statement by Red Hat about their position on governance of the FSF is ridiculous. Topics can be vanquished by a little libertarian clique here on HN, but it doesn't make them go away in the real world.
- paulcarroty 6y agoI think removing RMS should be done fast. Otherwise it destroys the reputation of FSF and GNU entirely - just be realistic.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- anuraaga 6y agoHow could an official post by Red Hat be flagged?