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>> "you say that we go round the sun. If we went round the moon it would not make a pennyworth of difference to me or to my work." I really like this for a dif

>> "you say that we go round the sun. If we went round the moon it would not make a pennyworth of difference to me or to my work." I really like this for a different reason. It’s one of the reasons I can appreciate flat-earthers (or other discordian-ish reality tunnels) from a slightly more philosophical standpoint: it really doesn’t matter

bckr 6y ago
I upvoted you but, also, it kind of does matter. How you orient yourself toward science and empirical experience says a lot about whether you're going to fall for some BS misinformation campaign, fail to vaccinate yourself and your children, etc...
- Chris2048 6y ago
  > How you orient yourself toward science and empirical experience few pro-vaxxers have a detailed understanding of biology or science, nor empirical evidence wrt vaccination, or the education to interpret it. The difference is not one of understanding, but trust, and the capacity to believe in "conspiracy". The problem is, sometimes conspiracies do exist (prism) and science is becoming increasingly politicised. That said, flat-earthers are categorically different, b/c it has nothing to do with science: a round earth can be demonstrated fairly easily in laymen terms, and the scale of the conspiracy to confound a round-earth map is also disproportionate.
wccrawford 6y ago
That quote has always bothered me. He uses incredibly small details to deduce incredible things, but thinks the solar system will never have any influence upon his casework. I can imagine scenarios where people thought the wrong things because of what the sun was doing, how far the sun was from the earth at the time, etc etc. It does matter, just not often... Much like the rest of what he uses to deduce things. It's like saying he doesn't care what clerks do in their jobs, but then deducing that someone's a clerk by their hands. He's have to know what they do for that, even if it doesn't otherwise affect him. That said, I agree with you... Mostly. I don't really care what someone believes, but there are some beliefs that tell me people aren't critical thinkers and will just believe things they're told... And then stick to it no matter what. I definitely treat those people differently for my own protection. If flat-earth was the only thing that person believed that was weird, I'd likely just laugh and overlook it. But so far, I've never found that to be the case. They go in for a lot more.
- EGreg 6y ago
  The show Sherlock shows that actually this solar system knowledge helps him in the end of the episode :)
- yodelshady 6y ago
  Right. Even within the UK, there are observable differences in the day between southern and northern points. If, say, someone from Kent was to fabricate a story in Glasgow set around twilight, you'd immediately notice their timescales are off. You could technically remember that without knowing why, but for real people organising facts like that under "things that are true because the earth goes round the sun, is tilted, and is round" is easier. A skilled worker organises their knowledge.
- sunopener 6y ago
  >> but there are some beliefs that tell me people aren't critical thinkers and will just believe things they're told... And then stick to it no matter what. I definitely treat those people differently for my own protection. What are some examples? I want to know so I may or may not learn to avoid your usual treatment of belief-normatives and instead be treated with your non-normative belief conditioned self-"protection" process, ultimately because I may or may not view your preference for "critical[/oppressive] thinking" as both or neither or simultaneously predatory and oppressive, not to mention self-deluding. You are obviously excusing your propensity to oppress and judge others through your irrational attachment to your beliefs that amount to nothing but false pattern recognition--or "apophenia". Your demonstrable beliefs make you weak to the clustering illusion and reveal your illusion of control bias. Pareidolia leads you to tap into your capacity to focus and directs it into protecting yourself from "[non-]critical[/non-oppressive] thinkers", wasting your focus. Yes, you can imagine, and yes you are right, but you are also more wrong than you may know. Your imagination is immaterial, your intuition however, is not. Regarding "small details to deduce incredible things"--don't take the quote so seriously... you are claim to know what the person quoited thinks ("but thinks the solar system will never...") ;) Every conscious being inherently groks interconnection. Your imagination is running your focus into a constipated mess, making you weak to FEAR where you feel the need to judge others based on their capacity to critically or oppressively think as a sort of protective mechanism. It's YOU, not THEM, you think its THEM, because you don't recognize it's YOU that are losing focus IMAGINING it is THEM. You are attempting to protect yourself by giving preferential treatment to others, when really it's your own run away imagination and your attachment to it combined with the error of attributing the lack of awareness of the focus sink onto the actual non objects of your imagination (i.e. you are mistaking the finger for the moon).

bckr 6y ago

I upvoted you but, also, it kind of does matter. How you orient yourself toward science and empirical experience says a lot about whether you're going to fall for some BS misinformation campaign, fail to vaccinate yourself and your children, etc...

Chris2048 6y ago
> How you orient yourself toward science and empirical experience few pro-vaxxers have a detailed understanding of biology or science, nor empirical evidence wrt vaccination, or the education to interpret it. The difference is not one of understanding, but trust, and the capacity to believe in "conspiracy". The problem is, sometimes conspiracies do exist (prism) and science is becoming increasingly politicised. That said, flat-earthers are categorically different, b/c it has nothing to do with science: a round earth can be demonstrated fairly easily in laymen terms, and the scale of the conspiracy to confound a round-earth map is also disproportionate.

wccrawford 6y ago

That quote has always bothered me. He uses incredibly small details to deduce incredible things, but thinks the solar system will never have any influence upon his casework. I can imagine scenarios where people thought the wrong things because of what the sun was doing, how far the sun was from the earth at the time, etc etc. It does matter, just not often... Much like the rest of what he uses to deduce things. It's like saying he doesn't care what clerks do in their jobs, but then deducing that someone's a clerk by their hands. He's have to know what they do for that, even if it doesn't otherwise affect him. That said, I agree with you... Mostly. I don't really care what someone believes, but there are some beliefs that tell me people aren't critical thinkers and will just believe things they're told... And then stick to it no matter what. I definitely treat those people differently for my own protection. If flat-earth was the only thing that person believed that was weird, I'd likely just laugh and overlook it. But so far, I've never found that to be the case. They go in for a lot more.

EGreg 6y ago
The show Sherlock shows that actually this solar system knowledge helps him in the end of the episode :)
yodelshady 6y ago
Right. Even within the UK, there are observable differences in the day between southern and northern points. If, say, someone from Kent was to fabricate a story in Glasgow set around twilight, you'd immediately notice their timescales are off. You could technically remember that without knowing why, but for real people organising facts like that under "things that are true because the earth goes round the sun, is tilted, and is round" is easier. A skilled worker organises their knowledge.
sunopener 6y ago
>> but there are some beliefs that tell me people aren't critical thinkers and will just believe things they're told... And then stick to it no matter what. I definitely treat those people differently for my own protection. What are some examples? I want to know so I may or may not learn to avoid your usual treatment of belief-normatives and instead be treated with your non-normative belief conditioned self-"protection" process, ultimately because I may or may not view your preference for "critical[/oppressive] thinking" as both or neither or simultaneously predatory and oppressive, not to mention self-deluding. You are obviously excusing your propensity to oppress and judge others through your irrational attachment to your beliefs that amount to nothing but false pattern recognition--or "apophenia". Your demonstrable beliefs make you weak to the clustering illusion and reveal your illusion of control bias. Pareidolia leads you to tap into your capacity to focus and directs it into protecting yourself from "[non-]critical[/non-oppressive] thinkers", wasting your focus. Yes, you can imagine, and yes you are right, but you are also more wrong than you may know. Your imagination is immaterial, your intuition however, is not. Regarding "small details to deduce incredible things"--don't take the quote so seriously... you are claim to know what the person quoited thinks ("but thinks the solar system will never...") ;) Every conscious being inherently groks interconnection. Your imagination is running your focus into a constipated mess, making you weak to FEAR where you feel the need to judge others based on their capacity to critically or oppressively think as a sort of protective mechanism. It's YOU, not THEM, you think its THEM, because you don't recognize it's YOU that are losing focus IMAGINING it is THEM. You are attempting to protect yourself by giving preferential treatment to others, when really it's your own run away imagination and your attachment to it combined with the error of attributing the lack of awareness of the focus sink onto the actual non objects of your imagination (i.e. you are mistaking the finger for the moon).