4 ms·

>People often don't like to say it out loud, but one of the principal drivers of the urge to retreat inside your car, is the fact that it puts a barrier between

>People often don't like to say it out loud, but one of the principal drivers of the urge to retreat inside your car, is the fact that it puts a barrier between you and the crazy guy shouting on the streetcorner As a former, long-time resident of an older inner city, I can say that not a single person I've ever encountered has made vehicle trips to avoid homeless people. Convenience, time to destination, and other concerns "drive" these decisions. For anything within that 10 minute radius, everyone walks. It's simply more efficient than driving.

munificent 6y ago
> I can say that not a single person I've ever encountered has made vehicle trips to avoid homeless people. I can think of many times where people I know have chosen to drive to avoid homelessness problems (or, more specifically homeless unstable drug addict problems).
anonfornoreason 6y ago
I literally just moved out of a west coast city due to the homelessness problem, and homeless camps changed my commute habits on bike and foot. While I am OK going by a homeless camp on bike/foot solo, I stopped taking my family through them after some sketchy encounters. I was lucky that I didn't need to change my bike commute with my kid due to camps, but that was because I could take some alternate routes to his school. If I wanted to completely avoid homeless camps on my bike commute, I would have had to increase my commute distance by about 30%. Not only that, but it's whack-a-mole. The smaller camps move around alot. Also as a bicyclist, you notice that the bike lanes are problematic near any campsites due to broken glass and needles. I am positive many people consider this when deciding whether to start or to continue being a bike commuter, at least in west coast cities with big homeless populations. I know many people that still live in the city, and people that moved away. Of my coworkers, all but one with kids moved out of the city when we went full remote, all cited homelessness and school quality as the top two issues. Homelessness is absolutely a big deal when making livable neighborhoods that people want to be in, whether or not you can find ways to "make it work" is beside the point.
- Daho0n 6y ago
  Most western cities doesn't have these kind of areas as there simply aren't homeless people enough to live there. With a working social security net it wouldn't need to be accounted for in the planning at all.
  - anonfornoreason 6y ago
    No disagreement at all, but given the choice of sticking it out and doing needle sweeps of the playground before letting my kid play, or moving to a city that doesn't have that problem, guess which one was the easy decision? In other words, don't conflate my lack of desire to spend another year dealing with homeless people as a lack of desire to find real solutions to homelessness. It's a 20 year problem, my kids will be grown up before it's not an issue anymore.
- fatnoah 6y ago
  Yeah, encampments of people and areas strewn with needles are a little more to deal with than the occasional homeless person or group. My city had its share of homeless and drug, and we'd find the occasional needle, but it was part of the fabric of the area, not its definition.
rufus_foreman 6y ago
I lived in the inner city and in some of the neighborhoods I lived in you simply wouldn't walk around. Not at night, not during the day, not anywhere other than from the front door to the car. You must have lived in a different kind of inner city than I did. It was convenient and efficient not to be assaulted.

munificent 6y ago

> I can say that not a single person I've ever encountered has made vehicle trips to avoid homeless people. I can think of many times where people I know have chosen to drive to avoid homelessness problems (or, more specifically homeless unstable drug addict problems).

anonfornoreason 6y ago

I literally just moved out of a west coast city due to the homelessness problem, and homeless camps changed my commute habits on bike and foot. While I am OK going by a homeless camp on bike/foot solo, I stopped taking my family through them after some sketchy encounters. I was lucky that I didn't need to change my bike commute with my kid due to camps, but that was because I could take some alternate routes to his school. If I wanted to completely avoid homeless camps on my bike commute, I would have had to increase my commute distance by about 30%. Not only that, but it's whack-a-mole. The smaller camps move around alot. Also as a bicyclist, you notice that the bike lanes are problematic near any campsites due to broken glass and needles. I am positive many people consider this when deciding whether to start or to continue being a bike commuter, at least in west coast cities with big homeless populations. I know many people that still live in the city, and people that moved away. Of my coworkers, all but one with kids moved out of the city when we went full remote, all cited homelessness and school quality as the top two issues. Homelessness is absolutely a big deal when making livable neighborhoods that people want to be in, whether or not you can find ways to "make it work" is beside the point.

Daho0n 6y ago
Most western cities doesn't have these kind of areas as there simply aren't homeless people enough to live there. With a working social security net it wouldn't need to be accounted for in the planning at all.
- anonfornoreason 6y ago
  No disagreement at all, but given the choice of sticking it out and doing needle sweeps of the playground before letting my kid play, or moving to a city that doesn't have that problem, guess which one was the easy decision? In other words, don't conflate my lack of desire to spend another year dealing with homeless people as a lack of desire to find real solutions to homelessness. It's a 20 year problem, my kids will be grown up before it's not an issue anymore.
fatnoah 6y ago
Yeah, encampments of people and areas strewn with needles are a little more to deal with than the occasional homeless person or group. My city had its share of homeless and drug, and we'd find the occasional needle, but it was part of the fabric of the area, not its definition.

rufus_foreman 6y ago

I lived in the inner city and in some of the neighborhoods I lived in you simply wouldn't walk around. Not at night, not during the day, not anywhere other than from the front door to the car. You must have lived in a different kind of inner city than I did. It was convenient and efficient not to be assaulted.