5 ms·

This is one of those things that the soviet cities did well. They called this microraion (microdistrict): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microdistrict https://e

by udev 6y ago

This is one of those things that the soviet cities did well. They called this microraion (microdistrict): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microdistrict https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microdistrict An interesting side-effect is that house/appartment-hunting become much easier and less stressful because no matter which district you will choose there will be services (groceries, pharmacies, clinics, child-care, schools, parks, etc) withing walkable/very-short-ride distance, which allows population distribute and grow more-or-less evenly, without segregationist tendencies like in the West: "I need to buy there because of the school", or "I need to buy in that area to avoid the immigrants/ethnic/black/brown people from the other area", etc.

gowld 6y ago
> West: "I need to buy there because of the school", or "I need to buy in that area to avoid the immigrants/ethnic/black/brown people from the other area", etc. How to microdistricts prevent class or racial clustering?
- ngngngng 6y ago
  I feel like class and racial diversity wasn't really something the USSR had to work with.
sandworm101 6y ago
That's all well and good if you work in the subset of industries that can exist in such cities. Is there a meat packing plant within 20 minutes? Is there a farm? Is there a harbor? Is there an airport? Is there a powerplant? Is there a military base? Not everyone is lucky enough to work in office-based industries. Some jobs need huge structures that cannot be integrated within a 20-minute walking distance. Such jobs are equally important. Any city planning must address everyone, not just office workers. I work on a military base. We make lots of noise. I like making that noise. I like getting paid to make noise. I don't want live beside it 24/7.
- asdff 6y ago
  Ideally if you have some big geographic dependent job center, you would have transit to move workers from this city center to this job center. That transit could be anything from a sad bus that shows up once an hour, or a subway that shows up every 90 seconds, depending on local political climate most of all, depending on need. For example, the subways in NYC don't really help you out if you need to get across town. They are designed to funnel workers from where its cheap to live elsewhere in nyc, to where they can find jobs in midtown or lower manhattan, like a big toilet bowl. Los Angeles also built the green line to service people working for the defense industry around LAX. Planners recognize needs for movement and have this data, but I'd say the biggest barriers are locals not wanting to see a train and the working people it carries, and a lack of strong federal support in recent decades (in contrast to highway funding).
- piva00 6y ago
  For these jobs you have industrial areas outside of the city skirts and good public transportation to/from the city neighbourhoods, good as in: accessible, fast and ubiquitous. That's how The Netherlands do and I really like their cities.
  - sandworm101 6y ago
    >> For these jobs you have industrial areas outside of the city skirts and good public transportation to/from the city neighbourhoods So... zoning. How is that any different than cities today? How then is the "20-minute city" any different than a city today + better public transport? My point is that people calling for integrated cities with services all within walking distances need also to accommodate the dirty/loud/dangerous jobs. Outsourcing such things to beyond the city limits is simply a repeat of current zoning policies using different names. The "20-minute city" concept boils down to just another call for better public transportation options. Ok. Cool. Do that. Just don't pretend you are doing anything revolutionary.
    - FalconSensei 6y ago
      Yes zoning, but only for some things. You don't need to have all office spaces in downtown. You don't need only big supermarkets that are in just a few neighbourhoods. If less people have to move over long distances, it makes easier for the ones that need to.
asdff 6y ago
Walkability does not equal a safe or desirable apartment. Westlake in Los Angeles has a "walk score" of 91, very high meaning you can get all your needs met without a car. Doesn't make it a paradise, this area is high in crime and homelessness, and no one with a family moves there unless they don't have other options, which is why it is primarily populated by recent immigrants from Central America who have few other options. These services seem important, but people sacrifice them all the time, because they prefer space, safety, and school districts, to the novelty of walking to a convenient store. The most expensive houses in LA are up in the hills, where it takes you 10 minutes just to drive down windy roads with zero sidewalks before you even hit a shop of some sort at the bottom. Being able to walk to your errands is just not prioritized in American real estate over the three S's. People willingly take an hour commute for these things.
- udev 6y ago
  "the novelty of walking to a convenient store" <- this sounds funny Not sure if sarcasm or figure of style of some sorts. If neither I recommend traveling to European/Asian/UK/Commonwealth cities where walking, convenience and safety are all combined seamlessly for large parts, if not whole, cities.

by udev 6y ago

gowld 6y ago

> West: "I need to buy there because of the school", or "I need to buy in that area to avoid the immigrants/ethnic/black/brown people from the other area", etc. How to microdistricts prevent class or racial clustering?

ngngngng 6y ago
I feel like class and racial diversity wasn't really something the USSR had to work with.

sandworm101 6y ago

That's all well and good if you work in the subset of industries that can exist in such cities. Is there a meat packing plant within 20 minutes? Is there a farm? Is there a harbor? Is there an airport? Is there a powerplant? Is there a military base? Not everyone is lucky enough to work in office-based industries. Some jobs need huge structures that cannot be integrated within a 20-minute walking distance. Such jobs are equally important. Any city planning must address everyone, not just office workers. I work on a military base. We make lots of noise. I like making that noise. I like getting paid to make noise. I don't want live beside it 24/7.

asdff 6y ago
Ideally if you have some big geographic dependent job center, you would have transit to move workers from this city center to this job center. That transit could be anything from a sad bus that shows up once an hour, or a subway that shows up every 90 seconds, depending on local political climate most of all, depending on need. For example, the subways in NYC don't really help you out if you need to get across town. They are designed to funnel workers from where its cheap to live elsewhere in nyc, to where they can find jobs in midtown or lower manhattan, like a big toilet bowl. Los Angeles also built the green line to service people working for the defense industry around LAX. Planners recognize needs for movement and have this data, but I'd say the biggest barriers are locals not wanting to see a train and the working people it carries, and a lack of strong federal support in recent decades (in contrast to highway funding).
piva00 6y ago
For these jobs you have industrial areas outside of the city skirts and good public transportation to/from the city neighbourhoods, good as in: accessible, fast and ubiquitous. That's how The Netherlands do and I really like their cities.
- sandworm101 6y ago
  >> For these jobs you have industrial areas outside of the city skirts and good public transportation to/from the city neighbourhoods So... zoning. How is that any different than cities today? How then is the "20-minute city" any different than a city today + better public transport? My point is that people calling for integrated cities with services all within walking distances need also to accommodate the dirty/loud/dangerous jobs. Outsourcing such things to beyond the city limits is simply a repeat of current zoning policies using different names. The "20-minute city" concept boils down to just another call for better public transportation options. Ok. Cool. Do that. Just don't pretend you are doing anything revolutionary.
  - FalconSensei 6y ago
    Yes zoning, but only for some things. You don't need to have all office spaces in downtown. You don't need only big supermarkets that are in just a few neighbourhoods. If less people have to move over long distances, it makes easier for the ones that need to.

asdff 6y ago

Walkability does not equal a safe or desirable apartment. Westlake in Los Angeles has a "walk score" of 91, very high meaning you can get all your needs met without a car. Doesn't make it a paradise, this area is high in crime and homelessness, and no one with a family moves there unless they don't have other options, which is why it is primarily populated by recent immigrants from Central America who have few other options. These services seem important, but people sacrifice them all the time, because they prefer space, safety, and school districts, to the novelty of walking to a convenient store. The most expensive houses in LA are up in the hills, where it takes you 10 minutes just to drive down windy roads with zero sidewalks before you even hit a shop of some sort at the bottom. Being able to walk to your errands is just not prioritized in American real estate over the three S's. People willingly take an hour commute for these things.

udev 6y ago
"the novelty of walking to a convenient store" <- this sounds funny Not sure if sarcasm or figure of style of some sorts. If neither I recommend traveling to European/Asian/UK/Commonwealth cities where walking, convenience and safety are all combined seamlessly for large parts, if not whole, cities.