5 ms·

I don't really understand how not going directly to the point can be better, for any mechanism.

hugh3 15y ago
And I don't really understand how thirty seconds of chit-chat about the weather is worse. Can you give me an example of the kind of small talk that you find to be painful?
- meow 15y ago
  30 seconds of small talk about weather with 30 people a day ... is painful..
seabee 15y ago
I'm sorry, in which world do all these introverts live where any topic is perfectly OK to talk about at any time? Small talk and social niceties aren't merely hot air, they are tools you can use to assess a person's mood, what they are interested in or comfortable discussing, or even whether it is productive to discuss something at all. Consider it the metadata of conversation. Also consider that conversation is two-way communication. You reveal information about yourself not just by the answers you give, but by the questions you ask.
- hugh3 15y ago
  It also establishes the fundamental fact "This is a friendly conversation". If I walk into my subordinate's office right now and say "Have you finished that graph yet?" then that communicates that I'm really impatient about getting that graph. Which would be fine if I am, but I'm not. If I do that, I'll just make him jumpy and anxious. Instead I'll wander down to his office and start with a "Hey, how's it going?" before asking about the graph, cuz I'm not actually impatient to get it, I'm just interested to know whether he's making progress or whether there's anything I need to help him with. The smalltalk is basically just equivalent to "I come in peace". If I were a gorilla I'd probably have to do this with gestures and facial expressions, but since I'm a human I have this extra tool in my arsenal to communicate the non-threatening nature of my approach. Awesome!
  - billswift 15y ago
    So instead of asking a 5 second question and letting him get back to work, you turn it into a 5 minute demonstration of your superiority by forcing him to pay attention to you instead of what he was doing.
    - hugh3 15y ago
      More like a one-minute interaction which communicates a lot more stuff in subtext than a five-second interaction could hope to... including the fact that I'm not scary and that he should feel free to ask me for help if he needs it.
      - seabee 15y ago
        I know one of the responses jokingly referenced Office Space, but it honestly seems like a few people have suffered that kind of work environment and it's affected their perception of things like this. In that situation, I too would prefer the introvert's preferences. But it's far from an ideal situation.
      - epochwolf 15y ago
        When a manager starts off with small talk, it only increases my anxiety more than any straight question ever would. I'm always waiting for the other shoe to drop. I've seen the pattern in every job I've had before my current one and with most teachers and professors I've met. They start off talking about something unrelated only to hit you with a hammer with the next question. Out of place small talk doesn't actually help people that are perspective enough to realize you want something. My experience has been that when a manager randomly starts a conversation that's not work related when it's not lunch or break time they are going to be asking or demanding things I won't like. Infinitely so when they just called you into their office.
  - absconditus 15y ago
    "Hello Peter, whats happening? Ummm, I'm gonna need you to go ahead come in tomorrow." That is how we introverts see it.
- vacri 15y ago
  whoah there - 'small talk' and 'social niceties' are two separate things. Not staring at your conversational partner as if you were a homicidal maniac is a 'social nicety'. Not walking off halfway through a sentence is a 'social nicety'. Showing some indication you're listening to what they're saying is a 'social nicety'. Getting into a time-filling general conversation about the weather is 'small talk'. The two are pretty distinct, and the dislike of small talk does not mean that the social nicety grease is discarded.
yxhuvud 15y ago
Oh? Then how about handshaking when doing network stuff?
lolcraft 15y ago
Smalltalk is social exploration. Maybe a better word might be social probing. In this stage, you can't go directly to the point, because smalltalk is useful only in evaluating the point of a future conversation with the same partner. Of course, people that think "no point yet" = "not valuable ever" might want to pursue philosophical nihilism until terminal depression. But I digress.

hugh3 15y ago

And I don't really understand how thirty seconds of chit-chat about the weather is worse. Can you give me an example of the kind of small talk that you find to be painful?

meow 15y ago
30 seconds of small talk about weather with 30 people a day ... is painful..

seabee 15y ago

I'm sorry, in which world do all these introverts live where any topic is perfectly OK to talk about at any time? Small talk and social niceties aren't merely hot air, they are tools you can use to assess a person's mood, what they are interested in or comfortable discussing, or even whether it is productive to discuss something at all. Consider it the metadata of conversation. Also consider that conversation is two-way communication. You reveal information about yourself not just by the answers you give, but by the questions you ask.

hugh3 15y ago
It also establishes the fundamental fact "This is a friendly conversation". If I walk into my subordinate's office right now and say "Have you finished that graph yet?" then that communicates that I'm really impatient about getting that graph. Which would be fine if I am, but I'm not. If I do that, I'll just make him jumpy and anxious. Instead I'll wander down to his office and start with a "Hey, how's it going?" before asking about the graph, cuz I'm not actually impatient to get it, I'm just interested to know whether he's making progress or whether there's anything I need to help him with. The smalltalk is basically just equivalent to "I come in peace". If I were a gorilla I'd probably have to do this with gestures and facial expressions, but since I'm a human I have this extra tool in my arsenal to communicate the non-threatening nature of my approach. Awesome!
- billswift 15y ago
  So instead of asking a 5 second question and letting him get back to work, you turn it into a 5 minute demonstration of your superiority by forcing him to pay attention to you instead of what he was doing.
  - hugh3 15y ago
    More like a one-minute interaction which communicates a lot more stuff in subtext than a five-second interaction could hope to... including the fact that I'm not scary and that he should feel free to ask me for help if he needs it.
    - seabee 15y ago
      I know one of the responses jokingly referenced Office Space, but it honestly seems like a few people have suffered that kind of work environment and it's affected their perception of things like this. In that situation, I too would prefer the introvert's preferences. But it's far from an ideal situation.
    - epochwolf 15y ago
      When a manager starts off with small talk, it only increases my anxiety more than any straight question ever would. I'm always waiting for the other shoe to drop. I've seen the pattern in every job I've had before my current one and with most teachers and professors I've met. They start off talking about something unrelated only to hit you with a hammer with the next question. Out of place small talk doesn't actually help people that are perspective enough to realize you want something. My experience has been that when a manager randomly starts a conversation that's not work related when it's not lunch or break time they are going to be asking or demanding things I won't like. Infinitely so when they just called you into their office.
- absconditus 15y ago
  "Hello Peter, whats happening? Ummm, I'm gonna need you to go ahead come in tomorrow." That is how we introverts see it.
vacri 15y ago
whoah there - 'small talk' and 'social niceties' are two separate things. Not staring at your conversational partner as if you were a homicidal maniac is a 'social nicety'. Not walking off halfway through a sentence is a 'social nicety'. Showing some indication you're listening to what they're saying is a 'social nicety'. Getting into a time-filling general conversation about the weather is 'small talk'. The two are pretty distinct, and the dislike of small talk does not mean that the social nicety grease is discarded.

yxhuvud 15y ago

Oh? Then how about handshaking when doing network stuff?

lolcraft 15y ago

Smalltalk is social exploration. Maybe a better word might be social probing. In this stage, you can't go directly to the point, because smalltalk is useful only in evaluating the point of a future conversation with the same partner. Of course, people that think "no point yet" = "not valuable ever" might want to pursue philosophical nihilism until terminal depression. But I digress.