5 ms·

It sure is, but we need to keep in mind that between them and the next guy was a somewhat short amount of time (and the next guy didn't know anything about them

It sure is, but we need to keep in mind that between them and the next guy was a somewhat short amount of time (and the next guy didn't know anything about them). They happened to be first but with the technology at the time it was bound to happen soon.

qudat 6y ago
I think this is true for any advancement in technology. No one does it in a vacuum. From my perspective you are not illustrating anything novel. I also think this is true for advancements in science as well. If Einstein didn’t figure out general relativity someone else would have.
- anderber 6y ago
  I think what I illustrated was a more specific thing. Santos-Dumont thought he invented the airplane because not many had knowledge of what the Wright Brothers did. So this is a unique situation where 2 different people did invent at around the same time. Not to take anything away from the Brothers, they were first and deserve to be known.
  - ceejayoz 6y ago
    I mean, sorta. In 1906 he was claiming the Wrights were lying about their ability to fly 30 miles. https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/12816410 https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/12816410
  - Stupulous 6y ago
    I don't doubt you're already aware, but for context: Surprisingly, this is not a unique phenomenon. Calculus, evolution, magnetism, the telegraph, and the lightbulb, among very many[1] others, all were discovered or invented at the same time independently. It isn't the rule, but it's definitely significant enough that single inventors aren't the rule either. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_multiple_discoveries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_multiple_discoveries
    - bbarnett 6y ago
      Plus, how did one find anything out? Even when telegraph, the phone, and wireless first existed, how would you transmit thousands upon thousands of scientific papers? News? And who would pay the incredible cost of doing so? Imagine transcribing by hand, via Morris code, or reading/writing, via phone? How would Bob in Asia, know what Tom in the UK was working on? Even mail often did not exist reliably. Some stuff could be shipped, sure, but it isn't as if sail was speedy. People have been in the dark for most of history.
itomato 6y ago
"Bound to happen" = "didn't happen"
- anderber 6y ago
  That's the thing, it did happen. Alberto Santos-Dumont thought he was the first (most of the world thought so too) to invent the airplane. So even if the Wright Brothers never existed this would've happen.
  - jecel 6y ago
    Actually, at a 1905 dinner in Washington DC Santos-Dumont got to talk with a man who had been at the Wright's 1903 flight. So there is a chance that his sudden change from the 14 (lighter than air) to the 14-bis (airplane) might have been influenced by this talk. Note that Santos-Dumont did get the prize for the first flight that required that the flight happen in Paris. Just like today there is a prize for the best solar power car in Australia and if I build one and drive it around in Africa I won't get that prize.
zthrowaway 6y ago
So? We can still reward people who take the ambition and risk to push humanity forward. They so happened to get recognition before anyone else, someone has to, that’s part of romanticizing what they did to influence future pioneers.
- anderber 6y ago
  I'm not taking anything away from the Wright Brothers, they were first and deserve to be know as such. But Santos-Dumont invented the airplane (or so he thought) without any knowledge of the brothers since they did it in secret. So they weren't that influential for him. A lot of people never heard of him but he gave his designs away for free which helped bring more innovation at a break neck speed. > The Demoiselle could be constructed in only 15 days. Possessing a good performance, flying at a speed of more than 100 km/h, the Demoiselle was the last aircraft designed by Santos-Dumont. The June 1910 edition of the Popular Mechanics magazine published drawings of the Demoiselle and stated, "This machine is better than any other which has ever been built, for those who wish to reach results with the least possible expense and with a minimum of experimenting." American companies sold drawings and parts for Demoiselles for several years afterward.
  - zthrowaway 6y ago
    Fair enough, TIL.
ethbr0 6y ago
> They happened to be first but with the technology at the time it was bound to happen soon. Whittle patented the concept of a turbojet engine in 1930. The first prototype wasn't created until 1937. The first British production jet plane (Gloster Meteor) didn't fly until 1943. Some things turn on capital and access to facilities.
- KingOfCoders 6y ago
  And of course it was much more complicated with many more "firsts" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_jet_engine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_jet_engine

qudat 6y ago

I think this is true for any advancement in technology. No one does it in a vacuum. From my perspective you are not illustrating anything novel. I also think this is true for advancements in science as well. If Einstein didn’t figure out general relativity someone else would have.

anderber 6y ago
I think what I illustrated was a more specific thing. Santos-Dumont thought he invented the airplane because not many had knowledge of what the Wright Brothers did. So this is a unique situation where 2 different people did invent at around the same time. Not to take anything away from the Brothers, they were first and deserve to be known.
- ceejayoz 6y ago
  I mean, sorta. In 1906 he was claiming the Wrights were lying about their ability to fly 30 miles. https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/12816410 https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/12816410
- Stupulous 6y ago
  I don't doubt you're already aware, but for context: Surprisingly, this is not a unique phenomenon. Calculus, evolution, magnetism, the telegraph, and the lightbulb, among very many[1] others, all were discovered or invented at the same time independently. It isn't the rule, but it's definitely significant enough that single inventors aren't the rule either. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_multiple_discoveries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_multiple_discoveries
  - bbarnett 6y ago
    Plus, how did one find anything out? Even when telegraph, the phone, and wireless first existed, how would you transmit thousands upon thousands of scientific papers? News? And who would pay the incredible cost of doing so? Imagine transcribing by hand, via Morris code, or reading/writing, via phone? How would Bob in Asia, know what Tom in the UK was working on? Even mail often did not exist reliably. Some stuff could be shipped, sure, but it isn't as if sail was speedy. People have been in the dark for most of history.

itomato 6y ago

"Bound to happen" = "didn't happen"

anderber 6y ago
That's the thing, it did happen. Alberto Santos-Dumont thought he was the first (most of the world thought so too) to invent the airplane. So even if the Wright Brothers never existed this would've happen.
- jecel 6y ago
  Actually, at a 1905 dinner in Washington DC Santos-Dumont got to talk with a man who had been at the Wright's 1903 flight. So there is a chance that his sudden change from the 14 (lighter than air) to the 14-bis (airplane) might have been influenced by this talk. Note that Santos-Dumont did get the prize for the first flight that required that the flight happen in Paris. Just like today there is a prize for the best solar power car in Australia and if I build one and drive it around in Africa I won't get that prize.

zthrowaway 6y ago

So? We can still reward people who take the ambition and risk to push humanity forward. They so happened to get recognition before anyone else, someone has to, that’s part of romanticizing what they did to influence future pioneers.

anderber 6y ago
I'm not taking anything away from the Wright Brothers, they were first and deserve to be know as such. But Santos-Dumont invented the airplane (or so he thought) without any knowledge of the brothers since they did it in secret. So they weren't that influential for him. A lot of people never heard of him but he gave his designs away for free which helped bring more innovation at a break neck speed. > The Demoiselle could be constructed in only 15 days. Possessing a good performance, flying at a speed of more than 100 km/h, the Demoiselle was the last aircraft designed by Santos-Dumont. The June 1910 edition of the Popular Mechanics magazine published drawings of the Demoiselle and stated, "This machine is better than any other which has ever been built, for those who wish to reach results with the least possible expense and with a minimum of experimenting." American companies sold drawings and parts for Demoiselles for several years afterward.
- zthrowaway 6y ago
  Fair enough, TIL.

ethbr0 6y ago

> They happened to be first but with the technology at the time it was bound to happen soon. Whittle patented the concept of a turbojet engine in 1930. The first prototype wasn't created until 1937. The first British production jet plane (Gloster Meteor) didn't fly until 1943. Some things turn on capital and access to facilities.

KingOfCoders 6y ago
And of course it was much more complicated with many more "firsts" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_jet_engine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_jet_engine