3 ms·

I agree that the meaning of the word "free" is often subjected to the perversions that you mentioned. And talking about the meaning of words, I would be very gr

I agree that the meaning of the word "free" is often subjected to the perversions that you mentioned. And talking about the meaning of words, I would be very grateful if you could also be careful not to dilute the meaning of the word "fascism" by using it as a stand-in for any politics against personal freedom, and not to distort the meaning of the word "liberal" by focusing it on a very narrow extreme interpretation of its base principles. Beware of charging words, whatever the reason.

rurban 6y ago
Fascism came from the US to Italy and Germany. With the US fascists there would be no Nazis, all the facist revolutions since the 30ies all over the world, esp. Latin America, Asia, Southern Europe, Africa. In fact that's the US biggest export model. Either old fashioned military fascist dictatorship, in the most excelling fashion and role model in South Korea. Or the new style democratic fascism, as experienced elsewhere. The liberal and "f"ree model. Just be sure to control politics, judges, police, military, press, education, entertainment, propaganda. These terms are well established since the 70ies, with the first big demonstrations against this political model, and the superior "Atlantic Partnership". Fascism is American. Leaving a nuclear wasteland in Europe behind is indeed a superior plan for the American meaning of "F"reedom. (NATO policies, not leaked by the Pentagon papers). Strategy of tension leaked by the Italians. The yearly putches all over. Press and entertainment domination. Just because historians don't teach it yet, doesn't mean the term is colluded. Eastern historian actually tought it. Fascism is much more than politics against personal freedom. One if it's characteristics is exactly the opposite. It's a well-working democratic "freedom" scheme, in which all powers are dependent, bankrupt, controlled. Slave markets, literally. Race extinction as official programs. Militarisation of police. Genocides. 30% of slave groups in prison. Nowadays just called corporatism, because the true name would be too disturbing. "Liberal" is different. This is market liberalism, conservative politics, but with democratic controls. The powers should control each other, not as in fascism, where the powers are controlled.
- Mauricebranagh 6y ago
  I would like to see your sources for these "interesting" takes.
  - sudosysgen 6y ago
    I don't totally agree with him, but if you read a bit of Mussolini it is true that he defines Fascism that way, as in the strongest in economic (and on the national stage, military) fuse with the state to control freedoms, or as he put it, "Fascism is more appropriately called Corporatism, because it is a merger of state and corporate power". Given that both Mussolini and Hitler came to power as a result of corporate backing, and survived as a result of that, it's not inappropriate to describe it as the takeover of the levers of state power by corporate power (accumulated through the free and liberal market). Both Hitler and Mussolini did claim inspiration from the United States. Hitler also claimed inspiration from Canada. The North American politics of the time of white supremacy and of total competition and survival of the strongest were a strong and explicit inspiration of Hitler on racial and economic terms[1]. This idea of fascism as a takeover of liberalism by those that benefitted most from it is not unique, though poorly phrased, as the idea that "fascism is capitalism in decay" (author unknown). I don't fully agree with this sentiment, because in truth the decay of capitalism while it often leads to fascism, doesn't always lead to the most rigorous definition of fascism. There is some leeway though, and if you accept Pinochet as fascist, then it is essentially true that Fascism is an end result of liberal free market societies where the winners of the free market while maintaining all economic and most societal freedoms, make them contingent to such an extent as they don't exist for most. [1]: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/04/30/how-american-racism-influenced-hitler https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/04/30/how-american-r...

rurban 6y ago

Fascism came from the US to Italy and Germany. With the US fascists there would be no Nazis, all the facist revolutions since the 30ies all over the world, esp. Latin America, Asia, Southern Europe, Africa. In fact that's the US biggest export model. Either old fashioned military fascist dictatorship, in the most excelling fashion and role model in South Korea. Or the new style democratic fascism, as experienced elsewhere. The liberal and "f"ree model. Just be sure to control politics, judges, police, military, press, education, entertainment, propaganda. These terms are well established since the 70ies, with the first big demonstrations against this political model, and the superior "Atlantic Partnership". Fascism is American. Leaving a nuclear wasteland in Europe behind is indeed a superior plan for the American meaning of "F"reedom. (NATO policies, not leaked by the Pentagon papers). Strategy of tension leaked by the Italians. The yearly putches all over. Press and entertainment domination. Just because historians don't teach it yet, doesn't mean the term is colluded. Eastern historian actually tought it. Fascism is much more than politics against personal freedom. One if it's characteristics is exactly the opposite. It's a well-working democratic "freedom" scheme, in which all powers are dependent, bankrupt, controlled. Slave markets, literally. Race extinction as official programs. Militarisation of police. Genocides. 30% of slave groups in prison. Nowadays just called corporatism, because the true name would be too disturbing. "Liberal" is different. This is market liberalism, conservative politics, but with democratic controls. The powers should control each other, not as in fascism, where the powers are controlled.

Mauricebranagh 6y ago
I would like to see your sources for these "interesting" takes.
- sudosysgen 6y ago
  I don't totally agree with him, but if you read a bit of Mussolini it is true that he defines Fascism that way, as in the strongest in economic (and on the national stage, military) fuse with the state to control freedoms, or as he put it, "Fascism is more appropriately called Corporatism, because it is a merger of state and corporate power". Given that both Mussolini and Hitler came to power as a result of corporate backing, and survived as a result of that, it's not inappropriate to describe it as the takeover of the levers of state power by corporate power (accumulated through the free and liberal market). Both Hitler and Mussolini did claim inspiration from the United States. Hitler also claimed inspiration from Canada. The North American politics of the time of white supremacy and of total competition and survival of the strongest were a strong and explicit inspiration of Hitler on racial and economic terms[1]. This idea of fascism as a takeover of liberalism by those that benefitted most from it is not unique, though poorly phrased, as the idea that "fascism is capitalism in decay" (author unknown). I don't fully agree with this sentiment, because in truth the decay of capitalism while it often leads to fascism, doesn't always lead to the most rigorous definition of fascism. There is some leeway though, and if you accept Pinochet as fascist, then it is essentially true that Fascism is an end result of liberal free market societies where the winners of the free market while maintaining all economic and most societal freedoms, make them contingent to such an extent as they don't exist for most. [1]: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/04/30/how-american-racism-influenced-hitler https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/04/30/how-american-r...