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Here's a myth held by introverts. Introverts (rightly) believe that extroverts don't understand them, but they don't understand extroverts as well as they thin

Here's a myth held by introverts. Introverts (rightly) believe that extroverts don't understand them, but they don't understand extroverts as well as they think they do. Case in point, the commonly held belief on HN that extroverts mostly BS their way through life while the introverts are doing the real work. In reality we introverts probably don't understand how incredibly nuanced seemingly superficial relationships and conversations can be.

ignifero 15y ago
As an introvert, i understand very well how extroverts think. For years i tried to become more extroverted, only to discover at a certain point that it's a dysfunctional path that leads to a superficial, seemingly fullfilling but unfocused and non-goal-directed lives. The nuance of conversation is a charm, it fades fast. The way I see it is time management: life is short, do you want to spend most of it dealing with people or things? for me it's "things", because they have a higher signal/noise ratio.
- jhamburger 15y ago
  And an extrovert trying to become an introvert would probably find himself incredibly bored and lonely. They're just two different orientations, we don't need to be constantly asserting superiority over one or the other.
  - knieveltech 15y ago
    I agree with your sentiment but I think you're railing against the tide here. Asserting superiority is what people do. It's largely hardwired.
    - innes 15y ago
      Speak for yourself - I like to think I'm above that.
      - knieveltech 15y ago
        So does everyone else. :)
  - hugh3 15y ago
    I'd go so far as to say that they're not even "two different orientations", it's just a spectrum. Some people are more introverted, others are more extroverted. Like most human characteristics it's probably bell-curveish. I'd say that "it's probably best to be somewhere in the middle, so that you're neither worn out by social situations or bored by spending time alone" but there's probably enough self-aggrandisement in this thread already.
    - saranagati 15y ago
      you're absolutely right that it's a spectrum. the myers-briggs assigns you're interovert/extrovert level as two ends of the spectrum. personally i got 99% introvert, 1% extrovert. As for not being able to change however, I don't believe that's set in stone. I took the test about 7 years ago and since then I feel like I'm more like 65%i/35%e. The whole idea of charging however is strange. Though I felt back before the test that i could only recharge at home, alone. At one point while i was the most social I felt as if I had to charge at home, then go out to recharge to balance it out. The brain is a very strange thing.
- pavel_lishin 15y ago
  You're implying that the introvert/extrovert split as a choice.
  - ignifero 15y ago
    No, i m implying there is still pressure to be more extroverted, which, in fact, is not useful.
- SoftwareMaven 15y ago
  I don't think you could have come up with a comment that more perfectly illustrated the GP's comments. An introvert trying to understand being an extrovert is like a white guy trying to understand what it's like to be black. It's not who you are, so no amount of pretending is going to give you a true understanding. I'm very much an introvert, but over the years, I've learned that networking is a critical part of being successful in any business endeavor, and it is nearly impossible to network following typical introvert patterns. As a result, I will go up to a group standing around at a social event, throw out my hand, and say "Hi, I'm Travis. What's your name?" even though I hate every second of it (and, given the sieve my brain is when it comes to names, I will likely forget before we are done talking :/). Given that, I don't believe for an instant that I understand being an extrovert. My wife is the prototypical extrovert. She will have life-long friends within minutes of entering a room full of people she's never met before. I will never understand how she does it, but more importantly, I will never understand why she does it.
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
  - lss456 15y ago
    Haha. As a white guy, I perfectly understand how black guys think. For years I tried to become more black, only to discover at a certain point that it's a dysfunctional path that leads to a superficial, seemingly fulfilling but unfocused and non-goal-directed lives. My real point is that anyone who believes they KNOW how anyone else thinks is wrong. It's a very egotistical thought to have that you know so well what another person thinks or feels.
    - Psyonic 15y ago
      What makes you so sure there is really a binary divide between introverts and extroverts? Even if it shows up on tests, whose to say that's not a learned behavior?
      - lss456 15y ago
        I'm not sure what you mean by binary divide, but the reason why some is introverted versus extroverted fascinate me. It's a pretty basic question - learned behavior versus instinctual/genetic behavior. Maybe it's somewhere in the middle? Here's what I think: as a young kid, you get exposed to things that shape your attitude. If your early experiences are negative in social settings, perhaps you grow up to be introverted. But what happened first - your negative experiences, or an attitude that pre-disposed you towards negative social experiences? Can little little kids have attitudes like that? Hard to day - how do we really know? I don't care what physical science has to say on it regarding brain maturity, neuro-pathways, etc - unless we can communicate with infants, we don't know if they have pre-disposed attitudes or thoughts.
- astrofinch 15y ago
  Let's distinguish between introvert vs extrovert and thinking like a cat vs thinking like a dog. http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/08/06/on-seeing-like-a-cat/ http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/08/06/on-seeing-like-a-cat/ In principle, it seems possible to have more interest in things than people ("think like a cat") but still get energized by people when you're with them (or, continue thinking like a cat when you're around them and explore how you can subtly direct social interactions or explain the behavior of others using simple theories like status preservation).
- jtbigwoo 15y ago
  For years i tried to become more extroverted, only to discover at a certain point that it's a dysfunctional path that leads to a superficial, seemingly fullfilling but unfocused and non-goal-directed lives. The nuance of conversation is a charm, it fades fast. If this is how you think extroverts are, then I would suggest that you don't understand very well how extroverts think. As someone who spent his youth as an introvert and later discovered the joys of extroversion, introversion seems like a suffocating, lonely, and stunted existence. Do those years mean I understand how introverts think? Of course not. Introverts obviously don't think their lives are lonely or stunted. Instead, I have to view others' choices with humility and accept that their thinking will always be alien to me.
- budwin 15y ago
  let's please just celebrate our differences rather than tear each other down. This is a real insult to anyone who doesn't consider themselves introverted...
  - ignifero 15y ago
    ... but celebrations are for extroverts!
- rokhayakebe 15y ago
  it's a dysfunctional path that leads to a superficial, seemingly fullfilling but unfocused and non-goal-directed lives Someone told me Friday "if there is nothing inside of you, of course you will try to focus on showing your outside. That is all you have.".
- j_baker 15y ago
  life is short, do you want to spend most of it dealing with people or things? Common misconception about introversion vs extraversion: that it always manifests in interactions with other people. The reality is that they define how you deal with the outer world. For instance, riding a roller coaster is an extraverted activity, even if you go alone. Staying home and reading a book is an introverted activity even if you invite someone else to read with you. When you say you like "things", that's still an extraverted attitude. Things still exist in the outer world. The real question is "Do you prefer the outer world or your inner world?" This is the question that helped me realize that I'm an (unfocused, non-goal-oriented) extravert.

ignifero 15y ago

As an introvert, i understand very well how extroverts think. For years i tried to become more extroverted, only to discover at a certain point that it's a dysfunctional path that leads to a superficial, seemingly fullfilling but unfocused and non-goal-directed lives. The nuance of conversation is a charm, it fades fast. The way I see it is time management: life is short, do you want to spend most of it dealing with people or things? for me it's "things", because they have a higher signal/noise ratio.

jhamburger 15y ago
And an extrovert trying to become an introvert would probably find himself incredibly bored and lonely. They're just two different orientations, we don't need to be constantly asserting superiority over one or the other.
- knieveltech 15y ago
  I agree with your sentiment but I think you're railing against the tide here. Asserting superiority is what people do. It's largely hardwired.
  - innes 15y ago
    Speak for yourself - I like to think I'm above that.
    - knieveltech 15y ago
      So does everyone else. :)
- hugh3 15y ago
  I'd go so far as to say that they're not even "two different orientations", it's just a spectrum. Some people are more introverted, others are more extroverted. Like most human characteristics it's probably bell-curveish. I'd say that "it's probably best to be somewhere in the middle, so that you're neither worn out by social situations or bored by spending time alone" but there's probably enough self-aggrandisement in this thread already.
  - saranagati 15y ago
    you're absolutely right that it's a spectrum. the myers-briggs assigns you're interovert/extrovert level as two ends of the spectrum. personally i got 99% introvert, 1% extrovert. As for not being able to change however, I don't believe that's set in stone. I took the test about 7 years ago and since then I feel like I'm more like 65%i/35%e. The whole idea of charging however is strange. Though I felt back before the test that i could only recharge at home, alone. At one point while i was the most social I felt as if I had to charge at home, then go out to recharge to balance it out. The brain is a very strange thing.
pavel_lishin 15y ago
You're implying that the introvert/extrovert split as a choice.
- ignifero 15y ago
  No, i m implying there is still pressure to be more extroverted, which, in fact, is not useful.
SoftwareMaven 15y ago
I don't think you could have come up with a comment that more perfectly illustrated the GP's comments. An introvert trying to understand being an extrovert is like a white guy trying to understand what it's like to be black. It's not who you are, so no amount of pretending is going to give you a true understanding. I'm very much an introvert, but over the years, I've learned that networking is a critical part of being successful in any business endeavor, and it is nearly impossible to network following typical introvert patterns. As a result, I will go up to a group standing around at a social event, throw out my hand, and say "Hi, I'm Travis. What's your name?" even though I hate every second of it (and, given the sieve my brain is when it comes to names, I will likely forget before we are done talking :/). Given that, I don't believe for an instant that I understand being an extrovert. My wife is the prototypical extrovert. She will have life-long friends within minutes of entering a room full of people she's never met before. I will never understand how she does it, but more importantly, I will never understand why she does it.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- lss456 15y ago
  Haha. As a white guy, I perfectly understand how black guys think. For years I tried to become more black, only to discover at a certain point that it's a dysfunctional path that leads to a superficial, seemingly fulfilling but unfocused and non-goal-directed lives. My real point is that anyone who believes they KNOW how anyone else thinks is wrong. It's a very egotistical thought to have that you know so well what another person thinks or feels.
  - Psyonic 15y ago
    What makes you so sure there is really a binary divide between introverts and extroverts? Even if it shows up on tests, whose to say that's not a learned behavior?
    - lss456 15y ago
      I'm not sure what you mean by binary divide, but the reason why some is introverted versus extroverted fascinate me. It's a pretty basic question - learned behavior versus instinctual/genetic behavior. Maybe it's somewhere in the middle? Here's what I think: as a young kid, you get exposed to things that shape your attitude. If your early experiences are negative in social settings, perhaps you grow up to be introverted. But what happened first - your negative experiences, or an attitude that pre-disposed you towards negative social experiences? Can little little kids have attitudes like that? Hard to day - how do we really know? I don't care what physical science has to say on it regarding brain maturity, neuro-pathways, etc - unless we can communicate with infants, we don't know if they have pre-disposed attitudes or thoughts.
astrofinch 15y ago
Let's distinguish between introvert vs extrovert and thinking like a cat vs thinking like a dog. http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/08/06/on-seeing-like-a-cat/ http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/08/06/on-seeing-like-a-cat/ In principle, it seems possible to have more interest in things than people ("think like a cat") but still get energized by people when you're with them (or, continue thinking like a cat when you're around them and explore how you can subtly direct social interactions or explain the behavior of others using simple theories like status preservation).
jtbigwoo 15y ago
For years i tried to become more extroverted, only to discover at a certain point that it's a dysfunctional path that leads to a superficial, seemingly fullfilling but unfocused and non-goal-directed lives. The nuance of conversation is a charm, it fades fast. If this is how you think extroverts are, then I would suggest that you don't understand very well how extroverts think. As someone who spent his youth as an introvert and later discovered the joys of extroversion, introversion seems like a suffocating, lonely, and stunted existence. Do those years mean I understand how introverts think? Of course not. Introverts obviously don't think their lives are lonely or stunted. Instead, I have to view others' choices with humility and accept that their thinking will always be alien to me.
budwin 15y ago
let's please just celebrate our differences rather than tear each other down. This is a real insult to anyone who doesn't consider themselves introverted...
- ignifero 15y ago
  ... but celebrations are for extroverts!
rokhayakebe 15y ago
it's a dysfunctional path that leads to a superficial, seemingly fullfilling but unfocused and non-goal-directed lives Someone told me Friday "if there is nothing inside of you, of course you will try to focus on showing your outside. That is all you have.".
j_baker 15y ago
life is short, do you want to spend most of it dealing with people or things? Common misconception about introversion vs extraversion: that it always manifests in interactions with other people. The reality is that they define how you deal with the outer world. For instance, riding a roller coaster is an extraverted activity, even if you go alone. Staying home and reading a book is an introverted activity even if you invite someone else to read with you. When you say you like "things", that's still an extraverted attitude. Things still exist in the outer world. The real question is "Do you prefer the outer world or your inner world?" This is the question that helped me realize that I'm an (unfocused, non-goal-oriented) extravert.