5 ms·

What's the point of notifying about government looking at data, if nothing will realistically change? By analogy, the sales tax is printed on every single recei

What's the point of notifying about government looking at data, if nothing will realistically change? By analogy, the sales tax is printed on every single receipt for a product, yet nobody clamours to reduce the sales tax. It's "just the way it is" because people have gotten used to it.

guerrilla 6y ago
Presumably they are mostly okay with the sales tax and may not be okay being spied on.
carlhjerpe 6y ago
People understand that the government needs money to operate and have come to terms with that, people might not have come to terms with the government looking through their private lives on the Internet.
- vonwoodson 6y ago
  Yet, people have come to terms with [big company] collecting their data and [selling] that data to [literally anyone with money].
  - ClumsyPilot 6y ago
    That demonstrably false - ask a random joe how much tax he just paid, and he will know. Ask him how many companies bought his data, and he wont have a clue. He doesnt even know who has it, who sold it, or anything for that matter. If, every time his data was sold, he got a notification, then maybe we would see a change.
    - mc32 6y ago
      Ask Joe where the government spends his taxes, he’ll equally be unable to tell you where it goes.
      - carlhjerpe 6y ago
        Roads, healthcare, education, infrastructure, military are things most people would probably be able to respond. Also the money they're giving to the government isn't tied to their identity in any way other than how well they're doing financially.
      - ClumsyPilot 6y ago
        What? Joe in UK gets a summary of national budget in the post every year, and can attend parlamentary sessions where budgets are discussed. They are public documents
        mc32 6y ago
        In general perhaps, just like generally we have an idea of what Google or Apple or Facebook have. But likewise although we know in aggregate what the government does with money, we don’t know specifically what they do with our contribution, nor do we have control over it whether we agree or disagree with the usage of it.
        ClumsyPilot 6y ago
        What is this absurdity, why are you on a mission to create an appearence that private and confidential dealings of Facebook and just as transparent as public documents subject to multiple levels of scruitiny by elected officials? there is no 'spesifically your contribution', you know exactly how much was spent on each road if you bother to look, and you do not have an idea of what facebook has and to whom it was sold because this information is not public.
    - dmd 6y ago
      Random joe somehow both knows how much tax he just paid, but also worries that if he gets into the "next tax bracket" he'll suddenly take home much less money. Random joe knows what his taxes pay for, but also thinks 25% of his taxes fund NASA and the NEA.
  - lbotos 6y ago
    I think this is disingenuous. “Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.” I think that 50% of people have no idea what the value of metadata is, nor how much or what they are leaking.
inetknght 6y ago
> By analogy, the sales tax is printed on every single receipt for a product, yet nobody clamours to reduce the sales tax. Many people do clamour to reduce the sales tax. But not "enough" because it's arguable that the sales tax has a purpose and that the people agree with the purpose and (mostly) agree with the price set of the purpose.
pydry 6y ago
You've got to plug both holes in a sinking ship. The imagination deficit by the public can be fixed separately but both that and knowledge of what is going on is necessary to stop this. There no "1984" (art that acts as a sort of standardized warning - to the point that it's almost a cliche) for a world with Google. Not yet, anyway. While the themes of 1984 are relevant, the tech isn't. We don't have TVs that record us at home but we have something potentially worse.
- inetknght 6y ago
  > We don't have TVs that record us at home You might want to learn more about "smart" TVs. TVs with a microphone and "always on" internet connection are already a thing being sold. I've seen demos of cameras placed directly behind display screens. Ostensibly they're marketed for better quality selfies on phones (as if that isn't a terrifying idea). But it could just as easily be in a TV.

guerrilla 6y ago

Presumably they are mostly okay with the sales tax and may not be okay being spied on.

carlhjerpe 6y ago

People understand that the government needs money to operate and have come to terms with that, people might not have come to terms with the government looking through their private lives on the Internet.

vonwoodson 6y ago
Yet, people have come to terms with [big company] collecting their data and [selling] that data to [literally anyone with money].
- ClumsyPilot 6y ago
  That demonstrably false - ask a random joe how much tax he just paid, and he will know. Ask him how many companies bought his data, and he wont have a clue. He doesnt even know who has it, who sold it, or anything for that matter. If, every time his data was sold, he got a notification, then maybe we would see a change.
  - mc32 6y ago
    Ask Joe where the government spends his taxes, he’ll equally be unable to tell you where it goes.
    - carlhjerpe 6y ago
      Roads, healthcare, education, infrastructure, military are things most people would probably be able to respond. Also the money they're giving to the government isn't tied to their identity in any way other than how well they're doing financially.
    - ClumsyPilot 6y ago
      What? Joe in UK gets a summary of national budget in the post every year, and can attend parlamentary sessions where budgets are discussed. They are public documents
      - mc32 6y ago
        In general perhaps, just like generally we have an idea of what Google or Apple or Facebook have. But likewise although we know in aggregate what the government does with money, we don’t know specifically what they do with our contribution, nor do we have control over it whether we agree or disagree with the usage of it.
        ClumsyPilot 6y ago
        What is this absurdity, why are you on a mission to create an appearence that private and confidential dealings of Facebook and just as transparent as public documents subject to multiple levels of scruitiny by elected officials? there is no 'spesifically your contribution', you know exactly how much was spent on each road if you bother to look, and you do not have an idea of what facebook has and to whom it was sold because this information is not public.
  - dmd 6y ago
    Random joe somehow both knows how much tax he just paid, but also worries that if he gets into the "next tax bracket" he'll suddenly take home much less money. Random joe knows what his taxes pay for, but also thinks 25% of his taxes fund NASA and the NEA.
- lbotos 6y ago
  I think this is disingenuous. “Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.” I think that 50% of people have no idea what the value of metadata is, nor how much or what they are leaking.

inetknght 6y ago

> By analogy, the sales tax is printed on every single receipt for a product, yet nobody clamours to reduce the sales tax. Many people do clamour to reduce the sales tax. But not "enough" because it's arguable that the sales tax has a purpose and that the people agree with the purpose and (mostly) agree with the price set of the purpose.

pydry 6y ago

You've got to plug both holes in a sinking ship. The imagination deficit by the public can be fixed separately but both that and knowledge of what is going on is necessary to stop this. There no "1984" (art that acts as a sort of standardized warning - to the point that it's almost a cliche) for a world with Google. Not yet, anyway. While the themes of 1984 are relevant, the tech isn't. We don't have TVs that record us at home but we have something potentially worse.

inetknght 6y ago
> We don't have TVs that record us at home You might want to learn more about "smart" TVs. TVs with a microphone and "always on" internet connection are already a thing being sold. I've seen demos of cameras placed directly behind display screens. Ostensibly they're marketed for better quality selfies on phones (as if that isn't a terrifying idea). But it could just as easily be in a TV.