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That's not how constitutional law works, though. Even if someone seizes power by force, the apparent constitutionality of their reign or lack thereof has many i

That's not how constitutional law works, though. Even if someone seizes power by force, the apparent constitutionality of their reign or lack thereof has many implications in international law and for the recognition of the new government, as well as for retrospective assessments, including the validity of the laws enacted by the regime. Dictators put great efforts in making their reign at least look constitutional.

taurath 6y ago
And fundamentally that is to preserve existing institutions of legalities, so that the dictator can wield the power of the state and not have the state itself dissolve.
rtpg 6y ago
France, for example, has gone through many different constitutions (the current one is from 1958). I don’t think they’re unique in changing up their foundational texts (and don’t forget places like the UK, that have no constitution, and rely on norms) But my point was mainly around popular movements. Not going to comment on international judgement in these circumstances
- jonathanstrange 6y ago
  Well, I'm not going to argue with you, there is no real disagreement here. All I'm saying is that you can be certain the members in various constitutional assemblies have been well aware of your point, and that contradictions in constitutions are not minor issues.
- jfengel 6y ago
  We... several different constitutions. The current one is called the Fifth Republic. The Third Republic ended when Germany took over the country, and the Fourth Republic was kind of an abortive mess. It was more akin to the US taking a mulligan after the Articles of Confederation. The Third Republic had actually lasted quite a while. There was definitely a mess before that: monarchy, revolution that created a republic that turned into an empire, then a monarchy again, then a republic again, then the nephew of the original emperor being declared emperor... the 19th century was not a good time to be French. (And I'm leaving out some revolutions and constitutions that didn't go anywhere.) But after that they really had settled down, until an outside force blew it all up. The 19th century wasn't really all that solid anywhere in Europe. Germany and Italy didn't do any better.
varjag 6y ago
International law is even more an afterthought for status quo than national constitutions. Noone is really bound by it unless it crosses a handful of powerful national actors with the guns. And countries recognizing governments unrecognized by others is common. Happened multiple times this side of the millennium.
refenestrator 6y ago
If they seize power by force AND they piss off NATO, then yeah. If they're anticommunists in Latin America, or anti-Gaddaffi in Libya, they'll probably be fine.

taurath 6y ago

And fundamentally that is to preserve existing institutions of legalities, so that the dictator can wield the power of the state and not have the state itself dissolve.

rtpg 6y ago

France, for example, has gone through many different constitutions (the current one is from 1958). I don’t think they’re unique in changing up their foundational texts (and don’t forget places like the UK, that have no constitution, and rely on norms) But my point was mainly around popular movements. Not going to comment on international judgement in these circumstances

jonathanstrange 6y ago
Well, I'm not going to argue with you, there is no real disagreement here. All I'm saying is that you can be certain the members in various constitutional assemblies have been well aware of your point, and that contradictions in constitutions are not minor issues.
jfengel 6y ago
We... several different constitutions. The current one is called the Fifth Republic. The Third Republic ended when Germany took over the country, and the Fourth Republic was kind of an abortive mess. It was more akin to the US taking a mulligan after the Articles of Confederation. The Third Republic had actually lasted quite a while. There was definitely a mess before that: monarchy, revolution that created a republic that turned into an empire, then a monarchy again, then a republic again, then the nephew of the original emperor being declared emperor... the 19th century was not a good time to be French. (And I'm leaving out some revolutions and constitutions that didn't go anywhere.) But after that they really had settled down, until an outside force blew it all up. The 19th century wasn't really all that solid anywhere in Europe. Germany and Italy didn't do any better.

varjag 6y ago

International law is even more an afterthought for status quo than national constitutions. Noone is really bound by it unless it crosses a handful of powerful national actors with the guns. And countries recognizing governments unrecognized by others is common. Happened multiple times this side of the millennium.

refenestrator 6y ago

If they seize power by force AND they piss off NATO, then yeah. If they're anticommunists in Latin America, or anti-Gaddaffi in Libya, they'll probably be fine.