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I thought it was pretty clear that the FSF has accomplished little and is prepared to accomplish less going forward. An advocacy organization without a legislat

I thought it was pretty clear that the FSF has accomplished little and is prepared to accomplish less going forward. An advocacy organization without a legislative agenda, whose messaging remains ineffective and unchanged for decades, isn’t very good at advocacy.

sokoloff 6y ago
What legislative agenda items would you like to see the FSF have? They base most of their work on the existing framework of copyright law. As a secondary activity, they support some related freedom-increasing topics (Right to Repair). If I look at outcomes, as measured by the adoption of open-source software, it’s hard for me to judge FSF as ineffective. If you want to argue that all of that adoption was incidental or accidental, entirely unrelated to the FSF, you’re welcome to advance that argument, but it will require more evidence than “I thought it was pretty clear”
denton-scratch 6y ago
Actually the FSF (in the form of the FSFE) have achieved rather a lot. Governments in Germany, for example (federal government general and the governments of the states) have been successfullly lobbied to use free software to create public documents, and to adopt the use of free software in general by their staff. And why does the free software movement need a legislative agenda? I've never seen legislation concerning software that wasn't horribly flawed. Legislation is the product of lobbying and the ignorance of legislators. If the FSF promoted a "legislative agenda", then I for one would have much diminished confidence in it.
- fao_ 6y ago
  > the FSF (in the form of the FSFE) As of right now, they are separate organizations.
  - denton-scratch 6y ago
    Thanks, I wasn't aware of that.
- PaulHoule 6y ago
  Unions in Germany have fought to get Microsoft Office back.
  - bildung 6y ago
    I find that hard to believe - the opposite, resistance against the employee surveillance Office 365 enables, is a hot topic in most German unions right now.
- galgalesh 6y ago
  A bunch of the people involved in creating the fsfe have publicly stated that is was founded because of disagreements with the FSF and it's leadership. If I recall correctly, the about page of fsfe stated this for a long time. The fsfe now also officially cut their ties to FSF because of RMS' reapportionment.
- vharuck 6y ago
  >And why does the free software movement need a legislative agenda? I've never seen legislation concerning software that wasn't horribly flawed. Legislation is the product of lobbying and the ignorance of legislators. That's a good reason to have a legislative agenda. Laws will be written, and some will likely impact the FSF's interests. If they send lobbyists and lawyers to argue for specific wording, the laws might not suck so much.

sokoloff 6y ago

What legislative agenda items would you like to see the FSF have? They base most of their work on the existing framework of copyright law. As a secondary activity, they support some related freedom-increasing topics (Right to Repair). If I look at outcomes, as measured by the adoption of open-source software, it’s hard for me to judge FSF as ineffective. If you want to argue that all of that adoption was incidental or accidental, entirely unrelated to the FSF, you’re welcome to advance that argument, but it will require more evidence than “I thought it was pretty clear”

denton-scratch 6y ago

Actually the FSF (in the form of the FSFE) have achieved rather a lot. Governments in Germany, for example (federal government general and the governments of the states) have been successfullly lobbied to use free software to create public documents, and to adopt the use of free software in general by their staff. And why does the free software movement need a legislative agenda? I've never seen legislation concerning software that wasn't horribly flawed. Legislation is the product of lobbying and the ignorance of legislators. If the FSF promoted a "legislative agenda", then I for one would have much diminished confidence in it.

fao_ 6y ago
> the FSF (in the form of the FSFE) As of right now, they are separate organizations.
- denton-scratch 6y ago
  Thanks, I wasn't aware of that.
PaulHoule 6y ago
Unions in Germany have fought to get Microsoft Office back.
- bildung 6y ago
  I find that hard to believe - the opposite, resistance against the employee surveillance Office 365 enables, is a hot topic in most German unions right now.
galgalesh 6y ago
A bunch of the people involved in creating the fsfe have publicly stated that is was founded because of disagreements with the FSF and it's leadership. If I recall correctly, the about page of fsfe stated this for a long time. The fsfe now also officially cut their ties to FSF because of RMS' reapportionment.
vharuck 6y ago
>And why does the free software movement need a legislative agenda? I've never seen legislation concerning software that wasn't horribly flawed. Legislation is the product of lobbying and the ignorance of legislators. That's a good reason to have a legislative agenda. Laws will be written, and some will likely impact the FSF's interests. If they send lobbyists and lawyers to argue for specific wording, the laws might not suck so much.