5 ms·

Is all of that loneliness from WFH or can some be attributed to National lockdowns and limits on social interaction outside your household? In a post Covid wor

by dkarp 6y ago

Is all of that loneliness from WFH or can some be attributed to National lockdowns and limits on social interaction outside your household? In a post Covid world, WFH could involve coworking spaces and cafes. I expect that industry will grow massively over the coming years as we migrate into a more distributed working style. It’s a new way of doing things things and it’s going to take time to adapt and replace the social side of the office.

el_benhameen 6y ago
Exactly. I “worked from home” for several years before covid, but I never worked exclusively at home until covid. I’d usually spend a few hours of a few days a week at a coffee shop, library or park, and not being able to do that during covid has definitely made remote work feel more isolating.
- d0ugal 6y ago
  I have been remote for around 8 years. When speaking to people new to remote (since covid) I always tell them this is the worst version of remote. Generally remote working means flexibility and freedom (to varying degrees). We don’t have that now.
- brailsafe 6y ago
  You're not alone. I just couldn't work without a varied selection of places to work from. I kind of froze, and couldn't bring myself to wake up and go 2 meters to my desk and work all day. The office was worse, but having coffee shops to go to was my previous solution.
- endymi0n 6y ago
  While there‘s truth to that, it doesn‘t bring home my own issue with WFH: It might be okay to much better for individual contributors, but it‘s harsh for me as a manager. Zoom (fatigue) meetings all day, staring at the screen instead of real people and any form of "managing by walking around" and watercooler chats are gone. This might not make a difference if my job was a corporate mess and sucked before already, but for people like me who actually enjoy their peers, it‘s a net negative. I feel completely out of touch with what happens in the company and everything feels super transactional. I mean, nobody opens a Zoom call to just chit-chat about mundane stuff. Well, some do but I‘m sick of taking any additional video call beyond the 4h I’m enduring every day. Sure, we could adjust to an even more asynchronous workflow like the poster child remote companies, but to me it would make this issue even worse. I can see how this benefits introverts and people with social anxiety, but as for extroverts me, I‘m getting more depressed every day.
  - mschuster91 6y ago
    > Well, some do but I‘m sick of taking any additional video call beyond the 4h I’m enduring every day. Looks to me like that is the root problem you're having...
  - pts_ 6y ago
    "managing by walking around" Always reminds me of meth lab enforcers walking around and intimidating illegal immigrant meth cooks on a meth assembly line.
  - midasuni 6y ago
    We have an open slack chat during the day. Looking forward to going to the pub with colleagues when it reopens in a couple of weeks, but nobody wants to go to an office to sit around.
  - llampx 6y ago
    I started a job as a manager during the pandemic, with everyone working from home. It sucked. On top of the usual difficulties with onboarding remotely, I had to deal with getting to know everyone around me in a 360 degree sphere, and forming relationships when most people had already been able to get to know each other in person. Can not wait to get back to being able to meet people in person, even if remote and WFH is allowed and accepted in the future, which I think it will be for all but the most dinosaur of companies.
  - dbetteridge 6y ago
    To ask the pointed question, How do the employees you manage feel about the change? Because for me the concept of managers 'just walking around' gives me that itchy feeling on the back of my neck. And at the end of the day if the employees who write code/produce output are doing that efficiently that is the goal right.
    - endymi0n 6y ago
      Good one, actually most of my employees feel the same way. You might have a bad case of a micromanager there, but here‘s my definition: > Management by walking around emphasizes the importance of interpersonal contact, open appreciation, and recognition. It is one of the most important ways to build civility and performance in the workplace. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/318016170_Managing_by_Walking_Around https://www.researchgate.net/publication/318016170_Managing_... Your definition of success might be technically right, but doesn‘t resonate with me. What good does it do if some code works but the employees behind that aren‘t happy, don‘t feel valued and we can‘t celebrate success together?
- the-dude 6y ago
  How are you not able to spend time at a park?
  - midasuni 6y ago
    Sitting in a park alone was illegal for a couple of months in the U.K. In other countries it got even more strict - 1 hour exercise and you had to pre register on a form.
    - cassianoleal 6y ago
      It's been very cold to be tryping in the park as well! It's getting better now, but is still not ideal. I have particularly cold extremities so it's very painful to type in that weather.
- vidarh 6y ago
  I'm introverted, and generally have most of my social interactions online. I like interacting with people, but it's draining to the point that I've loved working from home 80%-100% the last several years, and rarely go out other than for errands and to meet my girlfriend. First lockdown was an absolute breeze for me. I loved the solitude. Yet the subsequent lockdowns have been enough even for me to nudge me into what feels like (very) mild depression. Low-level enough that it's a nuisance rather than a problem, and I'm confident it will just go by itself once I am able to spend more time doing other things, but nevertheless it's a noticeable deterioration in mood and happiness level. I can't imagine what it must be like for people with stronger social needs... It's also the main thing that keeps me from getting judgemental about people skirting lockdown restrictions.
rytis 6y ago
I hope this is going to take off. I'd happily take a stroll across a park to a shared workspace, then go back home, rather than spend 3 hours commuting. The problem (not for me, but potentially for my employer) is that I will not be sitting with my coworkers, so building this sense of "community" is going to be much harder for them. The solution? Force everyone back in to the office as soon as possible...
7952 6y ago
I think the co-working space could grow in some really interesting ways. However, in traditional companies the budget for office space tends to be out of the control of normal employees. People will have to choose between the official office or paying out of pocket. I am not sure how many people will want to do that. Giving employees more choice could save lots of money. But only if managers are prepared to lose some control.
- ricardobayes 6y ago
  Not really, given how I need to pay for my own equipment now. So all this is just a silent pay cut.
znpy 6y ago
an anecdotal example: a relative of mine is an electrical engineer, and has worked on satellite on-board software for the last 34 years or so. she used to loathe working from home during the lockdown, but when the restrictions were eased she started enjoying it a lot. if anything, she says, she's getting at least one hour and a half more sleep in the morning and she's skipping the commute on the way back, so that's another hour saved. she still has to go in the office on friday, but according to her that's more of a management wish that anything really useful.

by dkarp 6y ago

el_benhameen 6y ago

Exactly. I “worked from home” for several years before covid, but I never worked exclusively at home until covid. I’d usually spend a few hours of a few days a week at a coffee shop, library or park, and not being able to do that during covid has definitely made remote work feel more isolating.

d0ugal 6y ago
I have been remote for around 8 years. When speaking to people new to remote (since covid) I always tell them this is the worst version of remote. Generally remote working means flexibility and freedom (to varying degrees). We don’t have that now.
brailsafe 6y ago
You're not alone. I just couldn't work without a varied selection of places to work from. I kind of froze, and couldn't bring myself to wake up and go 2 meters to my desk and work all day. The office was worse, but having coffee shops to go to was my previous solution.
endymi0n 6y ago
While there‘s truth to that, it doesn‘t bring home my own issue with WFH: It might be okay to much better for individual contributors, but it‘s harsh for me as a manager. Zoom (fatigue) meetings all day, staring at the screen instead of real people and any form of "managing by walking around" and watercooler chats are gone. This might not make a difference if my job was a corporate mess and sucked before already, but for people like me who actually enjoy their peers, it‘s a net negative. I feel completely out of touch with what happens in the company and everything feels super transactional. I mean, nobody opens a Zoom call to just chit-chat about mundane stuff. Well, some do but I‘m sick of taking any additional video call beyond the 4h I’m enduring every day. Sure, we could adjust to an even more asynchronous workflow like the poster child remote companies, but to me it would make this issue even worse. I can see how this benefits introverts and people with social anxiety, but as for extroverts me, I‘m getting more depressed every day.
- mschuster91 6y ago
  > Well, some do but I‘m sick of taking any additional video call beyond the 4h I’m enduring every day. Looks to me like that is the root problem you're having...
- pts_ 6y ago
  "managing by walking around" Always reminds me of meth lab enforcers walking around and intimidating illegal immigrant meth cooks on a meth assembly line.
- midasuni 6y ago
  We have an open slack chat during the day. Looking forward to going to the pub with colleagues when it reopens in a couple of weeks, but nobody wants to go to an office to sit around.
- llampx 6y ago
  I started a job as a manager during the pandemic, with everyone working from home. It sucked. On top of the usual difficulties with onboarding remotely, I had to deal with getting to know everyone around me in a 360 degree sphere, and forming relationships when most people had already been able to get to know each other in person. Can not wait to get back to being able to meet people in person, even if remote and WFH is allowed and accepted in the future, which I think it will be for all but the most dinosaur of companies.
- dbetteridge 6y ago
  To ask the pointed question, How do the employees you manage feel about the change? Because for me the concept of managers 'just walking around' gives me that itchy feeling on the back of my neck. And at the end of the day if the employees who write code/produce output are doing that efficiently that is the goal right.
  - endymi0n 6y ago
    Good one, actually most of my employees feel the same way. You might have a bad case of a micromanager there, but here‘s my definition: > Management by walking around emphasizes the importance of interpersonal contact, open appreciation, and recognition. It is one of the most important ways to build civility and performance in the workplace. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/318016170_Managing_by_Walking_Around https://www.researchgate.net/publication/318016170_Managing_... Your definition of success might be technically right, but doesn‘t resonate with me. What good does it do if some code works but the employees behind that aren‘t happy, don‘t feel valued and we can‘t celebrate success together?
the-dude 6y ago
How are you not able to spend time at a park?
- midasuni 6y ago
  Sitting in a park alone was illegal for a couple of months in the U.K. In other countries it got even more strict - 1 hour exercise and you had to pre register on a form.
  - cassianoleal 6y ago
    It's been very cold to be tryping in the park as well! It's getting better now, but is still not ideal. I have particularly cold extremities so it's very painful to type in that weather.
vidarh 6y ago
I'm introverted, and generally have most of my social interactions online. I like interacting with people, but it's draining to the point that I've loved working from home 80%-100% the last several years, and rarely go out other than for errands and to meet my girlfriend. First lockdown was an absolute breeze for me. I loved the solitude. Yet the subsequent lockdowns have been enough even for me to nudge me into what feels like (very) mild depression. Low-level enough that it's a nuisance rather than a problem, and I'm confident it will just go by itself once I am able to spend more time doing other things, but nevertheless it's a noticeable deterioration in mood and happiness level. I can't imagine what it must be like for people with stronger social needs... It's also the main thing that keeps me from getting judgemental about people skirting lockdown restrictions.

rytis 6y ago

I hope this is going to take off. I'd happily take a stroll across a park to a shared workspace, then go back home, rather than spend 3 hours commuting. The problem (not for me, but potentially for my employer) is that I will not be sitting with my coworkers, so building this sense of "community" is going to be much harder for them. The solution? Force everyone back in to the office as soon as possible...

7952 6y ago

I think the co-working space could grow in some really interesting ways. However, in traditional companies the budget for office space tends to be out of the control of normal employees. People will have to choose between the official office or paying out of pocket. I am not sure how many people will want to do that. Giving employees more choice could save lots of money. But only if managers are prepared to lose some control.

ricardobayes 6y ago
Not really, given how I need to pay for my own equipment now. So all this is just a silent pay cut.

znpy 6y ago

an anecdotal example: a relative of mine is an electrical engineer, and has worked on satellite on-board software for the last 34 years or so. she used to loathe working from home during the lockdown, but when the restrictions were eased she started enjoying it a lot. if anything, she says, she's getting at least one hour and a half more sleep in the morning and she's skipping the commute on the way back, so that's another hour saved. she still has to go in the office on friday, but according to her that's more of a management wish that anything really useful.