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We aren't talking about the relation between IQ and academic performance (although that is also clearly established to be significant). We're talking about the

We aren't talking about the relation between IQ and academic performance (although that is also clearly established to be significant). We're talking about the relationship between IQ and ACT/SAT scores. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6963451/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6963451/ https://www.psychologicalscience.org/pdf/ps/Frey.pdf https://www.psychologicalscience.org/pdf/ps/Frey.pdf I certainly don't "need" it to be true - things are either true or they aren't, and needing or wanting differently doesn't change that. "That correlation is better than a random guess but isn’t anything close to alignment." Do you want to make a more specific claim? Again, the original claim you're attempting to rebut is "Many test scores (e.g. ACT) are heavily IQ/g-predictive." How strong does the effect need to be? Since, again, nobody is claiming that it's 100% predictive, merely a significant factor. Do you want to give me an effect size? Keep in mind the typical social psychology effect size comes out to r usually between 0.15 and 0.3: https://psyarxiv.com/2epc4/ https://psyarxiv.com/2epc4/ https://jenni.uchicago.edu/Spencer_Conference/Representative%20Papers/Richard%20et%20al,%202003.pdf https://jenni.uchicago.edu/Spencer_Conference/Representative...

austincheney 6y ago
> We aren't talking about the relation between IQ and academic performance (although that is also clearly established to be significant). We're talking about the relationship between IQ and ACT/SAT scores. What is the practical difference? > I certainly don't "need" it to be true - things are either true or they aren't, and needing or wanting differently doesn't change that. You are confusing truth for fact. Truth is where you hang your belief. To be clear this is the basis of the APA's opinion on the matter: http://psych.colorado.edu/~carey/pdfFiles/IQ_Neisser2.pdf http://psych.colorado.edu/~carey/pdfFiles/IQ_Neisser2.pdf and the APA suggests there is only about a 81% alignment between IQ and academic/test performance. A 50% alignment, when there are only 2 items to compare, is random guess. All opinions that test results correlate with performance are, either directly or indirectly, rooted in Lewis Terman's famous work on IQ which has been disqualified many times. His research wasn't even good and failed in his own assessment over a longitudinal study. Yet, people still follow this garbage. EDIT: May this serve as some food for thought: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/beautiful-minds/200909/the-truth-about-the-termites https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/beautiful-minds/2009...

austincheney 6y ago

> We aren't talking about the relation between IQ and academic performance (although that is also clearly established to be significant). We're talking about the relationship between IQ and ACT/SAT scores. What is the practical difference? > I certainly don't "need" it to be true - things are either true or they aren't, and needing or wanting differently doesn't change that. You are confusing truth for fact. Truth is where you hang your belief. To be clear this is the basis of the APA's opinion on the matter: http://psych.colorado.edu/~carey/pdfFiles/IQ_Neisser2.pdf http://psych.colorado.edu/~carey/pdfFiles/IQ_Neisser2.pdf and the APA suggests there is only about a 81% alignment between IQ and academic/test performance. A 50% alignment, when there are only 2 items to compare, is random guess. All opinions that test results correlate with performance are, either directly or indirectly, rooted in Lewis Terman's famous work on IQ which has been disqualified many times. His research wasn't even good and failed in his own assessment over a longitudinal study. Yet, people still follow this garbage. EDIT: May this serve as some food for thought: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/beautiful-minds/200909/the-truth-about-the-termites https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/beautiful-minds/2009...