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The current cycle for touring bands is this: 1. Create an album 2. Organise tour dates for just after the album release 3. Release the album 4. Go on tour

The current cycle for touring bands is this: 1. Create an album 2. Organise tour dates for just after the album release 3. Release the album 4. Go on tour 5. Rest 6. Repeat For a US tour, you're not criss-crossing the country, going from New York to Los Angeles to San Francisco, e.t.c. Tour managers exist because they literally have to solve the Travelling Salesman problem for their clients. Tour buses are a thing because you're just driving to the next town/city along the way. I'm not sure where RoadPony fits into this touring cycle or helps tour managers in their decision making. It seems to me that it will promote one off gigs without taking care of the logistical problems that bands face.

krisoft 6y ago
> I'm not sure where RoadPony fits into this touring cycle or helps tour managers in their decision making. It provides strong confirmed information on where the fans are. With it the tour manager can know for certain how big a crowd they can expect in each city before they even start planning. Its up to them after this to decide where to go and where not to go to make the tour viable. > It seems to me that it will promote one off gigs... Why do you think so? I don’t see the fan pledges as binding on the band. If a band runs an album release campaign and when the numbers are in they can see that they have 10 fans in Miami and 10 fans in Anchorage and nothing else that just means that they are not ready for touring yet so they won’t. The kind of information RoadPony can provide is especially usefull on the margins. You don’t need to be a genius to know that huge band in a huge metropolis will find enough interest. But it might show if the time is right for a smaller band to start touring, or might show which smaller cities are viable tour stops for the huge band.
- damagednoob 6y ago
  You're right. The about page offers more information specifically aimed at performers which addresses my concerns about 'routes': https://www.roadpony.com/about/ https://www.roadpony.com/about/
- leehuffman 6y ago
  Again, tour managers don’t route tours. This entire thread is classic HN... interesting perspectives, but mostly a bunch of ‘smart’ people trading notes/ideas on topics/industries they know nothing about and/or read about once and now feel confident speaking on incorrectly. > It provides strong confirmed information on where the fans are You mean like promoters who put up guarantees? Pretty sure it’s not difficult to figure out which markets acts should travel to... follow the money...
  - damagednoob 6y ago
    It sounds like you've got a bee in your bonnet about terminology. Surely there's one entity that decides how to route the tour. If so, who does it? If not, how does it work?
- corkinn 6y ago
  You hit the nail on the head!
MrJagil 6y ago
That’s a very US-centric view and mostly concerns quite established artists with traditional band setups. DJs tour all day every day, and the current trend in pop music is to just release as many singles and eps and albums as possible (look at the rapper Future for instance). Not too familiar with Jazz but my impression is it’s mostly life on the road as well. As a former promoter in the EU, I can attest we have many great shows in my city which begin basically with just an email with an offer and a date and then it’s off to the races. Roadpony fits perfectly. Hundreds, thousands, if not millions of artists across the world would kill for that email. Artists are insatiable when it comes to opportunities like this. Mind you, “rock bands” are a thing of the past. People just pack a laptop and thats it. Futher, touring bands love to squeeze another gig in. Its basically free money. If you’re going to a festival, and theres a roadpony thing going on to have you play a venue that is local, of course you would just go do that as well.
- richrichardsson 6y ago
  > If you’re going to a festival, and theres a roadpony thing going on to have you play a venue that is local, of course you would just go do that as well. Assuming the festival contract doesn't specify exclusivity in the weeks surrounding (something that's actually quite common in my experience).
  - gabereiser 6y ago
    Exactly. It’s not as easy as saying “oh look, people want to see us” as it is bureaucratic red tape that a festival has to adhere to. Also, just because people want to see you perform doesn’t mean a venue does. Some venues will only take certain artists, others lack the space, all while more and more smaller to medium sized venues are closing. Music as a business is evolving to just digital content and marketing. It’s sad.
    - MrJagil 6y ago
      Yeah, there are things to consider. Everything also depends a whole lot on band size, country, city etc. Regarding venues, being from a city with around 1 million people, it’s pretty much always a solvable problem. Theaters, movie theaters, music venues, gallerie, stadiums, rented stages... it is, in my experience, a very solvable problem. If it’s a big band, you throw money at the problem, if it’s a small gig, make something fun out of it. The concert only gets better if you put the act somewhere fun or unexpected. I’ve done shows in wine cellars, on ferries etc.
leehuffman 6y ago
Tour managers don’t route tours...
- quesera 6y ago
  That is misleading. At most levels of band-organizational development, the person who is the tour manager is also the person who routes the tour.
redis_mlc 6y ago
> Tour managers exist because they literally have to solve the Travelling Salesman problem for their clients. Correct, the current wisdom for new bands is their first "manager" should just be a booking agent. Or invest more time on their online presence. There are some indie bands and performers will massive YT audiences of 1+ million subscribers. They could make it by selling tickets on Twitch etc. > Tour buses are a thing because you're just driving to the next town/city along the way. Well, vans are most common. "Goo Goo Dolls" lived in a van for a decade before making it. They said every morning was weird when you wake up, exit the van, see daylight ... and often a dog taking a run at you. You should watch their "Behind the Music" sometime - talk about suffering for your art! Where van life gets really weird is having a mixed band (ie. male and female members.) Somehow "No Doubt" pulled that off, although Gwen Stefani and one of the members dated for a while.
andy_ppp 6y ago
They could easily build in rules to accommodate this and even add a marketplace for companies who can bid to organise lighting rigs and venues and all other associated tour activities. I think what they are building could eventually be thought of as a control panel for bands (any bands) to be able to plan AND finance their tours with their fans. It’s completely genius if they take it far enough (and probably a billion dollar company if they get it right)!
breakfastduck 6y ago
Very US centric and very bias towards established acts with a large following. That is not the cycle for every band. I'm sure there are plenty of bands willing to travel a few hours for a one off gig, especially in smaller countries. Bands where they may be fairly popular online but haven't done any tours as yet.
- bildung 6y ago
  I perfectly fits my experience in Germany, so probably not US- but established-band centric (as in: they make money off spotify, though not necessarily enough to live off of it). Bookings almost exclusively go through the band's agency, 6 to 12 months in advance. Tour logistics are a major part of costs on the band's side. Smaller bands without an agency usually also only have a very small local following, meaning not enough guests to pay the people at the venue, meaning the mostly are not booked by the venue, outside of labor-of-love events of some employees at the venue.
corkinn 6y ago
Hey thanks for the feedback! RoadPony would be step 3.5 in this sequence. I'll try to explain how it's intended to help. It isn't meant to solve all logistical hurdles when it comes to touring but rather give agencies/artists more accurate insight into where they can be most successful as far as revenue and draw. You'd be able to see what fans (and where they are) are willing to pay for a tickets to the show (because they already have via the bid on their city) in select areas. The performer can then look at this data and see, for example, "it looks like we have a strong fan base on the east coast due to the requests/bids we've received on these east coast cities" Now the band knows that if they book on the east coast in those cities, they're at the very least going to collect the money that was generated via the bids from RoadPony. These fans are already invested so they're more likely going to show up to the show as well. It's gives you the opportunity to validate markets in cities before you even book them. You'll still have to book the show in those cities, but you'll now know that your efforts are much more validated if you used the data provided by RoadPony. Hope this clears things up. Let me know if you have any suggestions!

krisoft 6y ago

> I'm not sure where RoadPony fits into this touring cycle or helps tour managers in their decision making. It provides strong confirmed information on where the fans are. With it the tour manager can know for certain how big a crowd they can expect in each city before they even start planning. Its up to them after this to decide where to go and where not to go to make the tour viable. > It seems to me that it will promote one off gigs... Why do you think so? I don’t see the fan pledges as binding on the band. If a band runs an album release campaign and when the numbers are in they can see that they have 10 fans in Miami and 10 fans in Anchorage and nothing else that just means that they are not ready for touring yet so they won’t. The kind of information RoadPony can provide is especially usefull on the margins. You don’t need to be a genius to know that huge band in a huge metropolis will find enough interest. But it might show if the time is right for a smaller band to start touring, or might show which smaller cities are viable tour stops for the huge band.

damagednoob 6y ago
You're right. The about page offers more information specifically aimed at performers which addresses my concerns about 'routes': https://www.roadpony.com/about/ https://www.roadpony.com/about/
leehuffman 6y ago
Again, tour managers don’t route tours. This entire thread is classic HN... interesting perspectives, but mostly a bunch of ‘smart’ people trading notes/ideas on topics/industries they know nothing about and/or read about once and now feel confident speaking on incorrectly. > It provides strong confirmed information on where the fans are You mean like promoters who put up guarantees? Pretty sure it’s not difficult to figure out which markets acts should travel to... follow the money...
- damagednoob 6y ago
  It sounds like you've got a bee in your bonnet about terminology. Surely there's one entity that decides how to route the tour. If so, who does it? If not, how does it work?
corkinn 6y ago
You hit the nail on the head!

MrJagil 6y ago

That’s a very US-centric view and mostly concerns quite established artists with traditional band setups. DJs tour all day every day, and the current trend in pop music is to just release as many singles and eps and albums as possible (look at the rapper Future for instance). Not too familiar with Jazz but my impression is it’s mostly life on the road as well. As a former promoter in the EU, I can attest we have many great shows in my city which begin basically with just an email with an offer and a date and then it’s off to the races. Roadpony fits perfectly. Hundreds, thousands, if not millions of artists across the world would kill for that email. Artists are insatiable when it comes to opportunities like this. Mind you, “rock bands” are a thing of the past. People just pack a laptop and thats it. Futher, touring bands love to squeeze another gig in. Its basically free money. If you’re going to a festival, and theres a roadpony thing going on to have you play a venue that is local, of course you would just go do that as well.

richrichardsson 6y ago
> If you’re going to a festival, and theres a roadpony thing going on to have you play a venue that is local, of course you would just go do that as well. Assuming the festival contract doesn't specify exclusivity in the weeks surrounding (something that's actually quite common in my experience).
- gabereiser 6y ago
  Exactly. It’s not as easy as saying “oh look, people want to see us” as it is bureaucratic red tape that a festival has to adhere to. Also, just because people want to see you perform doesn’t mean a venue does. Some venues will only take certain artists, others lack the space, all while more and more smaller to medium sized venues are closing. Music as a business is evolving to just digital content and marketing. It’s sad.
  - MrJagil 6y ago
    Yeah, there are things to consider. Everything also depends a whole lot on band size, country, city etc. Regarding venues, being from a city with around 1 million people, it’s pretty much always a solvable problem. Theaters, movie theaters, music venues, gallerie, stadiums, rented stages... it is, in my experience, a very solvable problem. If it’s a big band, you throw money at the problem, if it’s a small gig, make something fun out of it. The concert only gets better if you put the act somewhere fun or unexpected. I’ve done shows in wine cellars, on ferries etc.

leehuffman 6y ago

Tour managers don’t route tours...

quesera 6y ago
That is misleading. At most levels of band-organizational development, the person who is the tour manager is also the person who routes the tour.

redis_mlc 6y ago

> Tour managers exist because they literally have to solve the Travelling Salesman problem for their clients. Correct, the current wisdom for new bands is their first "manager" should just be a booking agent. Or invest more time on their online presence. There are some indie bands and performers will massive YT audiences of 1+ million subscribers. They could make it by selling tickets on Twitch etc. > Tour buses are a thing because you're just driving to the next town/city along the way. Well, vans are most common. "Goo Goo Dolls" lived in a van for a decade before making it. They said every morning was weird when you wake up, exit the van, see daylight ... and often a dog taking a run at you. You should watch their "Behind the Music" sometime - talk about suffering for your art! Where van life gets really weird is having a mixed band (ie. male and female members.) Somehow "No Doubt" pulled that off, although Gwen Stefani and one of the members dated for a while.

andy_ppp 6y ago

They could easily build in rules to accommodate this and even add a marketplace for companies who can bid to organise lighting rigs and venues and all other associated tour activities. I think what they are building could eventually be thought of as a control panel for bands (any bands) to be able to plan AND finance their tours with their fans. It’s completely genius if they take it far enough (and probably a billion dollar company if they get it right)!

breakfastduck 6y ago

Very US centric and very bias towards established acts with a large following. That is not the cycle for every band. I'm sure there are plenty of bands willing to travel a few hours for a one off gig, especially in smaller countries. Bands where they may be fairly popular online but haven't done any tours as yet.

bildung 6y ago
I perfectly fits my experience in Germany, so probably not US- but established-band centric (as in: they make money off spotify, though not necessarily enough to live off of it). Bookings almost exclusively go through the band's agency, 6 to 12 months in advance. Tour logistics are a major part of costs on the band's side. Smaller bands without an agency usually also only have a very small local following, meaning not enough guests to pay the people at the venue, meaning the mostly are not booked by the venue, outside of labor-of-love events of some employees at the venue.

corkinn 6y ago

Hey thanks for the feedback! RoadPony would be step 3.5 in this sequence. I'll try to explain how it's intended to help. It isn't meant to solve all logistical hurdles when it comes to touring but rather give agencies/artists more accurate insight into where they can be most successful as far as revenue and draw. You'd be able to see what fans (and where they are) are willing to pay for a tickets to the show (because they already have via the bid on their city) in select areas. The performer can then look at this data and see, for example, "it looks like we have a strong fan base on the east coast due to the requests/bids we've received on these east coast cities" Now the band knows that if they book on the east coast in those cities, they're at the very least going to collect the money that was generated via the bids from RoadPony. These fans are already invested so they're more likely going to show up to the show as well. It's gives you the opportunity to validate markets in cities before you even book them. You'll still have to book the show in those cities, but you'll now know that your efforts are much more validated if you used the data provided by RoadPony. Hope this clears things up. Let me know if you have any suggestions!