3 ms·

This is not accurate. AlphaStar was nerfed quite heavily to achieve near APM parity with humans. The early version that beat Liquid-TLO had superhuman spikes i

This is not accurate. AlphaStar was nerfed quite heavily to achieve near APM parity with humans. The early version that beat Liquid-TLO had superhuman spikes in APM (despite having the same mean APM) but they addressed that later. The bot's APM is now significantly less than the best humans' typical APM, which makes it roughly fair since the bot never misclicks. AlphaStar is legitimately good at strategic reasoning, strategic planning, responsive build orders, responsive scouting, long macro games, etc. It's not the best in the world at these things yet (only top 1 percent+ level) and it does still rely on cheese build orders a lot, but still, what has been achieved is incredible.

TulliusCicero 6y ago
> The bot's APM is now significantly less than the best humans' typical APM, which makes it roughly fair since the bot never misclicks. This isn't really true, it still has a heavy mechanical advantage. I'd ballpark it at low or mid masters for overall strategy and tactics, top tier for 'reading' an incoming fight and deciding whether or not it should take the fight, and superhuman on mechanics/control.
- hntrader 6y ago
  The in-game EPM ended up about 180 with spikes smaller than humans' spikes. It also had camera constraints on where it could click unlike the bot that Liquid-TLO faced. Serral has a 300+ EPM for comparison. The bot's EPM is quite a bit worse than top humans, so I'm going to conclude that its mechanics are worse too. Also I don't agree that it was low masters for strats or tactics. You can't beat GMs with worse/same mechanics unless you have good strats. Besides, low masters players are pretty bad and the replays show that this bot had super tight and highly optimized builds, it was a big fan and good at early to midgame cheeses. The main valid criticism that I remember is that it wasn't the best at long games when the utility of its sharp build wore off and it needed to think on its feet, but I don't recall the details.

TulliusCicero 6y ago

> The bot's APM is now significantly less than the best humans' typical APM, which makes it roughly fair since the bot never misclicks. This isn't really true, it still has a heavy mechanical advantage. I'd ballpark it at low or mid masters for overall strategy and tactics, top tier for 'reading' an incoming fight and deciding whether or not it should take the fight, and superhuman on mechanics/control.

hntrader 6y ago
The in-game EPM ended up about 180 with spikes smaller than humans' spikes. It also had camera constraints on where it could click unlike the bot that Liquid-TLO faced. Serral has a 300+ EPM for comparison. The bot's EPM is quite a bit worse than top humans, so I'm going to conclude that its mechanics are worse too. Also I don't agree that it was low masters for strats or tactics. You can't beat GMs with worse/same mechanics unless you have good strats. Besides, low masters players are pretty bad and the replays show that this bot had super tight and highly optimized builds, it was a big fan and good at early to midgame cheeses. The main valid criticism that I remember is that it wasn't the best at long games when the utility of its sharp build wore off and it needed to think on its feet, but I don't recall the details.