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Surprised to see lithium vanadium phosphate left out of the discussion. Vanadium is a little rarer than manganese but still more common than nickel. But LVP has

by scythe 6y ago

Surprised to see lithium vanadium phosphate left out of the discussion. Vanadium is a little rarer than manganese but still more common than nickel. But LVP has a very high energy density comparable to the unobtainable LiCoO2: https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/acssuschemeng.8b04056 https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/acssuschemeng.8b04056 A major downside is relative unevenness of the discharge voltage. This is likely to require complicated electronics.

nickik 6y ago
> During spraying process, high-aspect-ratio carbon nanotubes are interweaved into lithium vanadium phosphate As soon as you read 'nanotubes' you know its not a relevant competitive chemistry. This is a non-commercial chemistry that is not anywhere close to being able to be used in the incredibly high volume car market. VW was talking about chemistry that are already produced at scale and already being validated in batteries, so they could be in mass-market cars in this decade. But it sounds nice to write research paper. This is honestly the first time I have heard of Vanadium lithium phosphate batteries, usually you hear of Vanadium in flow batteries. As far as I know, most people consider these vanadium flow batteries as basically non-competitive already.
- scythe 6y ago
  >As soon as you read 'nanotubes' you know its not a relevant competitive chemistry. It's a recent embodiment, LVP research is at least 20 years old. There are plenty of other methods. See e.g. (2002, ~300 citations): https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1149/1.1479295/meta https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1149/1.1479295/meta The comparison to flow batteries is a non sequitur, the only similarity is vanadium content.
baybal2 6y ago
LFP is already there, vanadium phosphate will need to show itself to be superior to at least it, which is already superior both cost, and capacity wise.

by scythe 6y ago

nickik 6y ago

> During spraying process, high-aspect-ratio carbon nanotubes are interweaved into lithium vanadium phosphate As soon as you read 'nanotubes' you know its not a relevant competitive chemistry. This is a non-commercial chemistry that is not anywhere close to being able to be used in the incredibly high volume car market. VW was talking about chemistry that are already produced at scale and already being validated in batteries, so they could be in mass-market cars in this decade. But it sounds nice to write research paper. This is honestly the first time I have heard of Vanadium lithium phosphate batteries, usually you hear of Vanadium in flow batteries. As far as I know, most people consider these vanadium flow batteries as basically non-competitive already.

scythe 6y ago
>As soon as you read 'nanotubes' you know its not a relevant competitive chemistry. It's a recent embodiment, LVP research is at least 20 years old. There are plenty of other methods. See e.g. (2002, ~300 citations): https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1149/1.1479295/meta https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1149/1.1479295/meta The comparison to flow batteries is a non sequitur, the only similarity is vanadium content.

baybal2 6y ago

LFP is already there, vanadium phosphate will need to show itself to be superior to at least it, which is already superior both cost, and capacity wise.