5 ms·

Return of Stallman sparks outrage among open-source and free software leaders

23 points by CrankyBear 6y ago

chmaynard 6y ago
Whatever credibility the FSF achieved after the Stallman resignation is gone now. Sad.
rennypj 6y ago
Main Thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26573717 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26573717
afrcnc 6y ago
dupe: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26573717 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26573717
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
sildur 6y ago
Well, hopefully this will help clean the free software movement from all those people who think no non-neurotypical person should be in a position of power. Whose number may seem unusually high, but it isn't if we consider recent history. People is quick to discard all those who think different. And the holier-than-thou mentality is deeply rooted in the American mind. Hopefully all those people will leave to form their "pure" and "exclusive" community where they could endlessly discuss about how many pricks can dance in a forum's thread, or something like that, so people who really want to work can advance the movement unimpeded by drama-seeking Karens.
- krapp 6y ago
  >Well, hopefully this will help clean the free software movement from all those people who think no non-neurotypical person should be in a position of power. Literally no one has argued that. People have argued that Richard Stallman shouldn't hold positions of power because his behavior and his beliefs make people feel unwelcome and uncomfortable. No one has ever claimed that Richard Stallman shouldn't be in a position of power because he is non-neurotypical, assuming that he is.
  - anm89 6y ago
    People are downvoting this but I've also never seen it anywhere. Can anyone cite any sources of people making this claim?
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - boublepop 6y ago
      The primary driver for him stepping down seems to have been the controversy surrounding him defending someone engaged in sex with a minor provided by Epstein with arguments like “she likely presented herself as willing” and arguing that wether she was above or below the age of content made no difference.
      - anm89 6y ago
        Right, I guess like everyone else I've got my own opinions on that but it was pretty clear to me that that was the impetus for all of this. I have not heard a single person attacking him for "not being neurotypical"
        sildur 6y ago
        Of course they don't. The people who bullied me didn't argument that either, but the end result was the same. We are attacked because we are weird. Which is sad. Software development was a safe haven for all the weird people who wouldn't fit elsewhere. But then the neurotypical arrived, and they didn't like our weirdness. So we are being bullied out of software development.
        dragonwriter 6y ago
        > Software development was a safe haven for all the weird people who wouldn't fit elsewhere. But then the neurotypical arrived, and they didn't like our weirdness. Interestingly, it being actively promoted that socially maladjusted males were ideal for the field—from, IIRC, about the 1970s—was a key part of driving women and others not fitting that constructed stereotype out of the field.
booleandilemma 6y ago
I suppose the leaders have to be outraged right? Defending him would require taking an actual stance on the matter. It's far more convenient to just go along with the cancel crowd and say Stallman is a sexist, or whatever.
zarkov99 6y ago
I am outrage at the outrage. Stallman has benefited humanity more on a single weekend that all these activists put together over the course of their miserable, sterile, toxic lives. Where is the petition to bring Stallman back? I'll sign in a jiffy.
- stefantalpalaru 6y ago
  > Where is the petition to bring Stallman back? https://github.com/rms-support-letter/rms-support-letter.github.io https://github.com/rms-support-letter/rms-support-letter.git...
client4 6y ago
I'm not outraged.
8bitsrule 6y ago
A lot of history's very well-known human beings sometimes displayed 'creepy' behavior. They weren't 'neuro-typical' either. (Dig the newspeak for 'normal' and 'abnormal') For each one of them, there are 100,000 'creeps' who never got caught - and contributed a lot less to humanity. Sometimes their behavior was even creepier than the behavior of all the sanctimonious trigger-pullers in US culture today. Who's next here in Salem? Where are the scales of justice? A hundred provable things done right can't balance out suspicions? Suspicions raised by people with no names? No statute of limitations? We're digging ourselves into some very deep trouble with this stuff.
fargle 6y ago
This all just amounts to character assassination. It's a witch hunt. 2nd and 3rd hand accusations. Accusations of assumed "intents" and assumed "beliefs". Demands to prove your innocence. Clear and obvious vendettas (Sarah Mei). It's a witch hunt, and the only ethical thing to do is just stop. Secondly, I think - how do we inoculate ourselves from Witch Hunts? We use logic, fairness, due process. If there is or was (and I agree there even might be) cause for an investigation into improprieties. Fine. But do it by the book, not by the Kangaroo court of public opinion. Show me the rule that was broken, the law that was broken. No anecdotes. If you can't, it may mean that the system is broken, not really RMS. Fix the rules. Fix the laws. OK then, fix the system. Then we talk about what is fair. Then we enforce.

23 points by CrankyBear 6y ago

chmaynard 6y ago

Whatever credibility the FSF achieved after the Stallman resignation is gone now. Sad.

rennypj 6y ago

Main Thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26573717 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26573717

afrcnc 6y ago

dupe: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26573717 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26573717

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

sildur 6y ago

Well, hopefully this will help clean the free software movement from all those people who think no non-neurotypical person should be in a position of power. Whose number may seem unusually high, but it isn't if we consider recent history. People is quick to discard all those who think different. And the holier-than-thou mentality is deeply rooted in the American mind. Hopefully all those people will leave to form their "pure" and "exclusive" community where they could endlessly discuss about how many pricks can dance in a forum's thread, or something like that, so people who really want to work can advance the movement unimpeded by drama-seeking Karens.

krapp 6y ago
>Well, hopefully this will help clean the free software movement from all those people who think no non-neurotypical person should be in a position of power. Literally no one has argued that. People have argued that Richard Stallman shouldn't hold positions of power because his behavior and his beliefs make people feel unwelcome and uncomfortable. No one has ever claimed that Richard Stallman shouldn't be in a position of power because he is non-neurotypical, assuming that he is.
- anm89 6y ago
  People are downvoting this but I've also never seen it anywhere. Can anyone cite any sources of people making this claim?
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - boublepop 6y ago
    The primary driver for him stepping down seems to have been the controversy surrounding him defending someone engaged in sex with a minor provided by Epstein with arguments like “she likely presented herself as willing” and arguing that wether she was above or below the age of content made no difference.
    - anm89 6y ago
      Right, I guess like everyone else I've got my own opinions on that but it was pretty clear to me that that was the impetus for all of this. I have not heard a single person attacking him for "not being neurotypical"
      - sildur 6y ago
        Of course they don't. The people who bullied me didn't argument that either, but the end result was the same. We are attacked because we are weird. Which is sad. Software development was a safe haven for all the weird people who wouldn't fit elsewhere. But then the neurotypical arrived, and they didn't like our weirdness. So we are being bullied out of software development.
        dragonwriter 6y ago
        > Software development was a safe haven for all the weird people who wouldn't fit elsewhere. But then the neurotypical arrived, and they didn't like our weirdness. Interestingly, it being actively promoted that socially maladjusted males were ideal for the field—from, IIRC, about the 1970s—was a key part of driving women and others not fitting that constructed stereotype out of the field.

booleandilemma 6y ago

I suppose the leaders have to be outraged right? Defending him would require taking an actual stance on the matter. It's far more convenient to just go along with the cancel crowd and say Stallman is a sexist, or whatever.

zarkov99 6y ago

I am outrage at the outrage. Stallman has benefited humanity more on a single weekend that all these activists put together over the course of their miserable, sterile, toxic lives. Where is the petition to bring Stallman back? I'll sign in a jiffy.

stefantalpalaru 6y ago
> Where is the petition to bring Stallman back? https://github.com/rms-support-letter/rms-support-letter.github.io https://github.com/rms-support-letter/rms-support-letter.git...

client4 6y ago

I'm not outraged.

8bitsrule 6y ago

A lot of history's very well-known human beings sometimes displayed 'creepy' behavior. They weren't 'neuro-typical' either. (Dig the newspeak for 'normal' and 'abnormal') For each one of them, there are 100,000 'creeps' who never got caught - and contributed a lot less to humanity. Sometimes their behavior was even creepier than the behavior of all the sanctimonious trigger-pullers in US culture today. Who's next here in Salem? Where are the scales of justice? A hundred provable things done right can't balance out suspicions? Suspicions raised by people with no names? No statute of limitations? We're digging ourselves into some very deep trouble with this stuff.

fargle 6y ago

This all just amounts to character assassination. It's a witch hunt. 2nd and 3rd hand accusations. Accusations of assumed "intents" and assumed "beliefs". Demands to prove your innocence. Clear and obvious vendettas (Sarah Mei). It's a witch hunt, and the only ethical thing to do is just stop. Secondly, I think - how do we inoculate ourselves from Witch Hunts? We use logic, fairness, due process. If there is or was (and I agree there even might be) cause for an investigation into improprieties. Fine. But do it by the book, not by the Kangaroo court of public opinion. Show me the rule that was broken, the law that was broken. No anecdotes. If you can't, it may mean that the system is broken, not really RMS. Fix the rules. Fix the laws. OK then, fix the system. Then we talk about what is fair. Then we enforce.