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Many would argue that it’s unhealthy to rely on your work for social bonds. I much prefer keeping my social circle and my work circles completely separate. Wfh

Many would argue that it’s unhealthy to rely on your work for social bonds. I much prefer keeping my social circle and my work circles completely separate. Wfh means I can spend more time socializing with those I care about.

throwaway98797 6y ago
For some of us that’s all we got. For others they prefer their co-workers over forced social socializion due to family relations.
- solosoyokaze 6y ago
  Not having social bonds out of work is definitely a problem with our society. It's fixable though, there are lots of groups outside of work you can connect with and start meeting people. The internet made this a lot easier. > For others they prefer their co-workers over forced social socialization due to family relations. Honestly, these are the co-workers I hate being around the most as they treat you like an outlet for not just social contact but often therapy or venting about their family. I literally never want to hear about a co-worker's terrible marriage (for an example I've had to deal with quite a bit).
lmm 6y ago
Having no social bonds with people you're spending 8+ hours/day with seems a lot more unhealthy to me (and so does spending all that time hermit-like - and doing your job in the company of family or friends from outside the job seems awkward too).
- tayo42 6y ago
  Your not really spending 8 hours a day with them when your remote though, your team/coworkers w/e are just people to sync up with when you need to.
  - lmm 6y ago
    Sure, but if you don't have any bonds with your coworkers you're either having zero social contact for 8 hours/day, or trying to work while socialising with non-coworkers. There are definitely days where I keep my head down and don't talk to anyone, but I wouldn't want every day to be like that.
    - solosoyokaze 6y ago
      If you're socializing with co-workers you're also not working. One of the problems is the 8 hour work day. I don't want to be forced to spend 40+ hours a week with co-workers. That is why people aren't having healthy social lives. Work is draining their time and energy. Yes, people make due by creating social bonds with their co-workers, but I'd hardly call that ideal.
      - lmm 6y ago
        > If you're socializing with co-workers you're also not working. Only in a narrow sense. If anything employers in our industry tend to deliberately encourage employees to socialise (within reason): casual contact is important to help different parts of the org chart break out of their silos, liminal spaces are an important route for information that might be suppressed over normal channels, and almost everyone knows at some level that you can't do 40 hours of productive programming per week. The way I see it, a certain amount of socialising on the clock is win-win. > One of the problems is the 8 hour work day. I don't want to be forced to spend 40+ hours a week with co-workers. That is why people aren't having healthy social lives. Work is draining their time and energy. I don't disagree, but don't let perfect be the enemy of good. Given that I do have to work 8 hours/day, I'd rather humanise that time as much as possible than refuse out of some sense of accelerationism.
        solosoyokaze 6y ago
        I wouldn't call optimizing for information flow through an organization in a way prescribed by management "socializing" or even "good". Wfh definitely isn't accelerationism (or perfect). It's just a chance to live somewhere less oppressively expensive and have less surveillance from your employer all day. It's up to the individual to take advantage of that. If socializing is important to them, there are more opportunities to do it, it just takes a bit more work but I would argue the results are much healthier and more natural than relying on work and centering relationships around working.
oblio 6y ago
> Many would argue that it’s unhealthy to rely on your work for social bonds. Many would argue that eating right and exercising is healthy, yet 30%+ of people in developed countries are overweight and the percentage is increasing. At some point we have to accept reality. People are flawed (yet they somehow manage to live their lives :-) ).
- solosoyokaze 6y ago
  Well the reality is that wfh is a trend and it helps with the issue that I'm talking about. It's not hypothetical, it's happening now.
  - oblio 6y ago
    Does it, though? Socializing at home during work hours is not the same thing as socializing outside of work hours. Plus, people still work 8+ hours a day, so you can't really interact much with friends. The main thing you win is geographically, I guess. No more time lost in commute plus maybe less time lost meeting with friends because you don't have to go from the office to the meeting place (though that will obviously depend on how far your friends are from your home).
    - solosoyokaze 6y ago
      You're not really socializing with people in the office either, you're working with them. Without a boss around looking over your shoulder, you have a lot more time to socialize if you want. Go get a coffee with a friend, your partner, your kid... I'd also describe the office as anti-social as I would not voluntarily spend my time with the majority of my co-workers and having to be around them day in and day out is extremely draining and demoralizing. I find surrounding myself with people I actually care about and have real bonds with to be far more positive.

throwaway98797 6y ago

For some of us that’s all we got. For others they prefer their co-workers over forced social socializion due to family relations.

solosoyokaze 6y ago
Not having social bonds out of work is definitely a problem with our society. It's fixable though, there are lots of groups outside of work you can connect with and start meeting people. The internet made this a lot easier. > For others they prefer their co-workers over forced social socialization due to family relations. Honestly, these are the co-workers I hate being around the most as they treat you like an outlet for not just social contact but often therapy or venting about their family. I literally never want to hear about a co-worker's terrible marriage (for an example I've had to deal with quite a bit).

lmm 6y ago

Having no social bonds with people you're spending 8+ hours/day with seems a lot more unhealthy to me (and so does spending all that time hermit-like - and doing your job in the company of family or friends from outside the job seems awkward too).

tayo42 6y ago
Your not really spending 8 hours a day with them when your remote though, your team/coworkers w/e are just people to sync up with when you need to.
- lmm 6y ago
  Sure, but if you don't have any bonds with your coworkers you're either having zero social contact for 8 hours/day, or trying to work while socialising with non-coworkers. There are definitely days where I keep my head down and don't talk to anyone, but I wouldn't want every day to be like that.
  - solosoyokaze 6y ago
    If you're socializing with co-workers you're also not working. One of the problems is the 8 hour work day. I don't want to be forced to spend 40+ hours a week with co-workers. That is why people aren't having healthy social lives. Work is draining their time and energy. Yes, people make due by creating social bonds with their co-workers, but I'd hardly call that ideal.
    - lmm 6y ago
      > If you're socializing with co-workers you're also not working. Only in a narrow sense. If anything employers in our industry tend to deliberately encourage employees to socialise (within reason): casual contact is important to help different parts of the org chart break out of their silos, liminal spaces are an important route for information that might be suppressed over normal channels, and almost everyone knows at some level that you can't do 40 hours of productive programming per week. The way I see it, a certain amount of socialising on the clock is win-win. > One of the problems is the 8 hour work day. I don't want to be forced to spend 40+ hours a week with co-workers. That is why people aren't having healthy social lives. Work is draining their time and energy. I don't disagree, but don't let perfect be the enemy of good. Given that I do have to work 8 hours/day, I'd rather humanise that time as much as possible than refuse out of some sense of accelerationism.
      - solosoyokaze 6y ago
        I wouldn't call optimizing for information flow through an organization in a way prescribed by management "socializing" or even "good". Wfh definitely isn't accelerationism (or perfect). It's just a chance to live somewhere less oppressively expensive and have less surveillance from your employer all day. It's up to the individual to take advantage of that. If socializing is important to them, there are more opportunities to do it, it just takes a bit more work but I would argue the results are much healthier and more natural than relying on work and centering relationships around working.

oblio 6y ago

> Many would argue that it’s unhealthy to rely on your work for social bonds. Many would argue that eating right and exercising is healthy, yet 30%+ of people in developed countries are overweight and the percentage is increasing. At some point we have to accept reality. People are flawed (yet they somehow manage to live their lives :-) ).

solosoyokaze 6y ago
Well the reality is that wfh is a trend and it helps with the issue that I'm talking about. It's not hypothetical, it's happening now.
- oblio 6y ago
  Does it, though? Socializing at home during work hours is not the same thing as socializing outside of work hours. Plus, people still work 8+ hours a day, so you can't really interact much with friends. The main thing you win is geographically, I guess. No more time lost in commute plus maybe less time lost meeting with friends because you don't have to go from the office to the meeting place (though that will obviously depend on how far your friends are from your home).
  - solosoyokaze 6y ago
    You're not really socializing with people in the office either, you're working with them. Without a boss around looking over your shoulder, you have a lot more time to socialize if you want. Go get a coffee with a friend, your partner, your kid... I'd also describe the office as anti-social as I would not voluntarily spend my time with the majority of my co-workers and having to be around them day in and day out is extremely draining and demoralizing. I find surrounding myself with people I actually care about and have real bonds with to be far more positive.