5 ms·

> "Not only is a company responsible to do what the party demands, but they also can't admit to doing that if they're asked." > > But others have suggested it

> "Not only is a company responsible to do what the party demands, but they also can't admit to doing that if they're asked." > > But others have suggested it is unfair to judge China's tech giants on the same basis as those from developed countries. I found the ending of the article delightful. First, because the US has secret warrants for IT companies too, so hearing this out loud wouldn't really be a big surprise. Second, because China still pretends to be an "undeveloped" country? Come on! How long can this card be played.

baybal2 6y ago
> Second, because China still pretends to be an "undeveloped" country? Come on! How long can this card be played. Well it is. I dare you to go to China to places where most Chinese wouldn't go. Half of the country still lives in places you can't twist your tongue to call cities. China's biggest cities are a prime case of fancy Potemkin villages. It's a state policy to maintain "the face of the country" at any expense, which may includes things as ridiculous as banning motorcycles to not reveal that people don't have money for cars, fining people for using cloth lines if their windows face major streets, or tourists having their photo film confiscated because they shot photos in less than sightly places. This is much akin to how USSR ran a showy semblance of a civilized life in Moscow, at an enormous expense to its economy, to rather successfully fool the West into believing in USSR's relative prosperity. If you think that ideology talks is what sets off thin skinned Chinese political establishment, then you haven't seen their reaction when somebody evokes the gravest insult of calling them poor.
- throw10123213 6y ago
  I'd be quite afraid to go in many US places. And many US places experience some poverty that's the stuff of nightmares. I think it's about time to stop calling the #1 world economy, #1 world manufacturer, a country that's expanding it's sphere of influence across the globe (see Africa) plus having a growing in well equipped military as 'underdeveloped'.
- TazeTSchnitzel 6y ago
  This is a weird way to look at it. China's high-tech cities are what they appear to be, there's nothing Potemkin about them. But it's a country with massive wealth inequalities between classes and between rural and urban areas. The US must have looked like this once.
angio 6y ago
Event more ironic considering this UK government use of gag orders to silence companies.
roflulz 6y ago
the average annual income in China is something around $12K. I would not say it is developed, just because the top percentile of the population seem to live lavish lives. did a quick look - median income is around $4K-6K a year. there is no way that can be compared to any 1st world country. http://www.stats.gov.cn/english/PressRelease/202101/t20210119_1812523.html http://www.stats.gov.cn/english/PressRelease/202101/t2021011... According to this list - China's median income is comparable to Bolivia, Libya, Dominican Republic, Paraguay, etc. Would you list all those as developed countries? https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/median-income-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/median-in... And according to this GDP Per Capita list - China ranks 73. Don't believe the racist propaganda trying to make you fear China. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28PPP%29_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28PP...
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- africanboy 6y ago
  on one hand I agree with you, on the other hand it's very hard to apply the same kpis we use for other countries, given the size of China. For example the city of Beijing has the same GDP of Sweden and Belgium and it's not far from the city of London.
  - coldtea 6y ago
    >For example the city of Beijing has the same GDP of Sweden and Belgium and it's not far from the city of London. So? The country itself can still be under-developed.
    - africanboy 6y ago
      the country of China is as big as the USA but hosts 4 times the population the median salary in US is $ 36k/year[1] in China is $ 13.5k, but cost of living in China is more than 50% cheaper than in US on average and education is basically free Kentucky has the same population of Switzerland but less than half average income (27k vs 62k) 14% of the population in USA relys on food stamps OP said I would not say it is developed, just because the top percentile of the population seem to live lavish lives, does that apply to US as well? (or Italy, where I come from and similar patterns are observable) there is more than the average and the median when 1.2 billion people live in the same country development is not homogeneous anywhere [1] The Bureau of Labor Statistics reported a median personal income of $865 weekly for all full-time workers in 2017. The U.S. Census Bureau lists the annual real median personal income at $35,977 in 2019 with a base year of 2019.

baybal2 6y ago

> Second, because China still pretends to be an "undeveloped" country? Come on! How long can this card be played. Well it is. I dare you to go to China to places where most Chinese wouldn't go. Half of the country still lives in places you can't twist your tongue to call cities. China's biggest cities are a prime case of fancy Potemkin villages. It's a state policy to maintain "the face of the country" at any expense, which may includes things as ridiculous as banning motorcycles to not reveal that people don't have money for cars, fining people for using cloth lines if their windows face major streets, or tourists having their photo film confiscated because they shot photos in less than sightly places. This is much akin to how USSR ran a showy semblance of a civilized life in Moscow, at an enormous expense to its economy, to rather successfully fool the West into believing in USSR's relative prosperity. If you think that ideology talks is what sets off thin skinned Chinese political establishment, then you haven't seen their reaction when somebody evokes the gravest insult of calling them poor.

throw10123213 6y ago
I'd be quite afraid to go in many US places. And many US places experience some poverty that's the stuff of nightmares. I think it's about time to stop calling the #1 world economy, #1 world manufacturer, a country that's expanding it's sphere of influence across the globe (see Africa) plus having a growing in well equipped military as 'underdeveloped'.
TazeTSchnitzel 6y ago
This is a weird way to look at it. China's high-tech cities are what they appear to be, there's nothing Potemkin about them. But it's a country with massive wealth inequalities between classes and between rural and urban areas. The US must have looked like this once.

angio 6y ago

Event more ironic considering this UK government use of gag orders to silence companies.

roflulz 6y ago

the average annual income in China is something around $12K. I would not say it is developed, just because the top percentile of the population seem to live lavish lives. did a quick look - median income is around $4K-6K a year. there is no way that can be compared to any 1st world country. http://www.stats.gov.cn/english/PressRelease/202101/t20210119_1812523.html http://www.stats.gov.cn/english/PressRelease/202101/t2021011... According to this list - China's median income is comparable to Bolivia, Libya, Dominican Republic, Paraguay, etc. Would you list all those as developed countries? https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/median-income-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/median-in... And according to this GDP Per Capita list - China ranks 73. Don't believe the racist propaganda trying to make you fear China. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28PPP%29_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28PP...

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
africanboy 6y ago
on one hand I agree with you, on the other hand it's very hard to apply the same kpis we use for other countries, given the size of China. For example the city of Beijing has the same GDP of Sweden and Belgium and it's not far from the city of London.
- coldtea 6y ago
  >For example the city of Beijing has the same GDP of Sweden and Belgium and it's not far from the city of London. So? The country itself can still be under-developed.
  - africanboy 6y ago
    the country of China is as big as the USA but hosts 4 times the population the median salary in US is $ 36k/year[1] in China is $ 13.5k, but cost of living in China is more than 50% cheaper than in US on average and education is basically free Kentucky has the same population of Switzerland but less than half average income (27k vs 62k) 14% of the population in USA relys on food stamps OP said I would not say it is developed, just because the top percentile of the population seem to live lavish lives, does that apply to US as well? (or Italy, where I come from and similar patterns are observable) there is more than the average and the median when 1.2 billion people live in the same country development is not homogeneous anywhere [1] The Bureau of Labor Statistics reported a median personal income of $865 weekly for all full-time workers in 2017. The U.S. Census Bureau lists the annual real median personal income at $35,977 in 2019 with a base year of 2019.