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> It’s also possible that people who join Mensa differ from other people in ways other than just IQ. For example, people preoccupied with intellectual pursuits

by rory 6y ago

> It’s also possible that people who join Mensa differ from other people in ways other than just IQ. For example, people preoccupied with intellectual pursuits may spend less time than the average person on physical exercise and social interaction, both of which have been shown to have broad benefits for psychological and physical health. Is Mensa really an "intellectual pursuit"? I'm not sure exactly what Mensa does, but maybe people insecure enough to join an IQ-restricted club are more likely to be those who suffer from setbacks in other parts of their lives.

Consultant32452 6y ago
My limited experience with Mensa is that it's a social/dating club for high IQ people. It's been too long for me to remember the details, but I recall reading about studies that suggest relationships where IQs are too far apart (more than 5-10pts) have a high failure rate. If you're more than a standard deviation from the mean, it probably makes sense to have a special dating circle if you're looking for a long term partner.
- rory 6y ago
  That's interesting. Similar to how many people rely on university networks to segregate their dating pool roughly by IQ (although more informally). Is the gender ratio reasonable for straight couples? My imagined version of Mensa is a club that mostly attracts men.
  - Consultant32452 6y ago
    IQ is not distributed equally among men and women. The median is the same, but there are more men at the extremes for IQ (both high and low). Mensa membership is 66% male. https://www.us.mensa.org/learn/about/demographics/ https://www.us.mensa.org/learn/about/demographics/
    - mhh__ 6y ago
      This is a weird one. There does seem to be evidence in support of the variation hypothesis, but merely mentioning its existence while not being a woman is enough to get you sacked. The thing I don't get about that, or at least I obviously do get it but it lead to think, surely if you were hiring in volume you might be better off hiring women anyway since you can more precisely know what kind of candidates you want to hire?
      - mamon 6y ago
        Variation hypothesis actually makes sense from evolutionary point of view: you need as many women as you can get to produce offsprings, but only small number of men suffices to impregnate them all. So men are disposable, therefore they are where the mother nature does its risky experiments.
        carabiner 6y ago
        This may be true, but I suggest you keep this to yourself. We also see that college majors with the highest average IQ (like Physics, Engineering) have the least women: http://www.randalolson.com/2014/06/25/average-iq-of-students-by-college-major-and-gender-ratio/ http://www.randalolson.com/2014/06/25/average-iq-of-students...
      - 2-tpg 6y ago
        For diversity and inclusion in AI papers, they bring up facts like "All of the top 10 most-cited AI researchers are men" and then posit this as bad, and in support of a 50%-50% gender representation in AI. Like in: The field still has a long way to go. Not: we judged these extremely rare geniuses on their gender, and when you do this, you get bad diversity-and-inclusion optics. And how to solve that perceived problem? Judge other academics on their gender, place them in a victimized group, and then compose your reference list with that in mind? The top 10 starts doing exactly that, because the guilt they feel is real. So they say nothing when privileged researchers can use the LatinX-in-AI, Women-in-AI, Black-in-AI, Gay-in-AI, Jewish-in-AI backdoors to get in a prestigious AI conference publication.
- Matticus_Rex 6y ago
  From what I've heard from some young women who were involved with Mensa early, it has aspects of a grooming club as well =(
Mountain_Skies 6y ago
I joined to have something to put on my otherwise bare resume coming out of university. Never renewed my membership. Their magazine was better than I expected but the local newsletter didn't inspire me to actually show up at any meetings. From the few other Mensa members I've met, it seemed like they were active members in order to be able to socialize with people who were of "birds of a feather" so to speak rather than out of an insecurity but this is from a rather small sample size of maybe seven or eight people.
- desireco42 6y ago
  I was happy I had a score, but like you, I let my membership lapse. I also remember magazine to be good. It is nice to talk to people who think well, I had few friends who were also eligible and it was really nice to talk to them even if their interests didn't exactly match mine.
- rory 6y ago
  I can relate to this. I put my SAT score on my resume until I was 23 or 24. Kind of embarrassing, but I was desperate for a way to show I was smart.
  - DaveExeter 6y ago
    What's embarrassing about that? If I were hiring, I would like to know every applicant's SAT score.
    - rychco 6y ago
      You'd like to know the score your 22-24 year old candidate received on the SAT that he took when he was 17-19? How is that relevant?
      - DaveExeter 6y ago
        SAT scores are the closest thing we have to a universal IQ test. I'd like to know the approximate IQ of a candidate. I recall reading somewhere that Google did a study on hires and found that the only thing that correlated with success at Google was SAT score. Not GPA, not specific college attended, etc.
desireco42 6y ago
You are saying that only because they didn't accept you there :)
pizza234 6y ago
Update: I'm reading people with (more) negative experiences. I guess YMMV :) Still, I wouldn't draw absolute conclusions based on this. I was a Mensa associate, and participated to evening meetings in two countries (evening meetings are only part of the activities). You're assuming, with "people insecure enough to join an IQ-restricted club", that associates sit on a high horse due to their IQ. It was quite the opposite; the clubs are very friendly, and what I remember is actually, fun nights playing board and social games (it's amusing to think that a significant part of a "high IQ" club is games :)). Definitely, nobody would recognize it was a Mensa meeeting if they didn't know it already. In my personal view, joining the club because of (relatively) high IQ was no different than joining, say, a chess club - meeting people who have something in common. Needless to say, there were lots of programmers :)
- SavantIdiot 6y ago
  That's interesting. I joined and was immediately turned off by the group. The difference with joining a chess club is you get to play chess. So let's turn your proposal around: What do you get to do in a High IQ club that is different from any random collection of people? Besides talk about how you are in MENSA?
  - foepys 6y ago
    Just like in a fraternity, you get connections. Mensa is basically a network of highly intelligent people (or at least people with high IQ) that help each other in different ways for further their education and career. Being part of Mensa can open doors that would otherwise be locked or very hard to open.
    - SavantIdiot 6y ago
      > Just like in a fraternity, you get connections. Gender segregated groups in the year 2021 have just entered chat. Nepotism has just entered chat. You have left chat.
    - beaconstudios 6y ago
longtom 6y ago
Yeah, it's kinda embarrassing and funny at the same time how this study is likely saying more about Mensa members than about high IQ people in general.
MrFantastic 6y ago
My experience at MENSA meetings was a bunch of people bragging about their IQ. Many had their IQ listed on their name tag.
- FabHK 6y ago
  What country? I've never seen that at Mensa in Germany, Hong Kong, Netherlands, Malaysia, UK, US, or elsewhere, really. In fact, the matter of IQ has rarely if ever come up at all (except in abstract discussions of testing, factor analysis, operationalisation, objectivity/reliability/validity, etc.).
- rory 6y ago
  That makes me want to crash a meeting wearing some nonsensical number like 500 and challenge anyone who questioned it to a "battle of wits".
coldtea 6y ago
>I'm not sure exactly what Mensa does Gives a mermbership certificate and a number that they think they brag about to socially naive, gullible and arrogant (but otherwise smart), people (I say "think they can brag about" because nobody will actually be impressed by it, and it just makes them appear as crude idiots - IQ is not an accomplishment by itself, and the proof of genius is in genius work).
- wruza 6y ago
  It’s your requirement though, not theirs. I’m not part of Mensa and have no chance neither will to join, but this attitude “do some genius work then we’ll talk” really annoys me. It’s unlikely that I will do, but if I did, we wouldn’t talk, cause who cares. Like they need to work hard to prove something to a stranger (I’d make it invalidate membership). Some people can beat that score, some cannot, that’s it. Social people do things to feel accepted and loved (or feared, or hated). Unsocial may do that for themselves, out of curiosity, for an idea, to fight with reality, because they can. But not to impress some guy out there. It doesn’t have to be utilitarian; analyzing sudoku solving methods with 4 digits or playing other hard “games” is as intellectual as creating a cure for cancer. The only difference is how some Joe judges or benefits from it, which is irrelevant. If this reads harsh, I did not mean it, but you social guys think you understand better, but often you do not. I never announced my iq because I’ve seen that the answer other people usually get is either “ooh that’s high” or “what are you bragging about, it’s a number” or “mine is N”. Never heard the one that I find actually interesting: “which test it was, and oh, how did you analyze Nth, because it has three patterns with similar fitness, but only two were available as an answer”. Never once.
  - coldtea 6y ago
    >I’m not part of Mensa and have no chance neither will to join, but this attitude “do some genius work then we’ll talk” really annoys me It's not "do some genius work then we’ll talk" though. It's more "Until you do some genius work don't brag to me about how smart you are in IQ points". >It’s unlikely that I will do, but if I did, we wouldn’t talk, cause who cares. It's actually the opposite: people do care about genius work others do, as it can be touching (e.g. in art), evolutionary (e.g. in science), impactful (in tech, etc). Whereas people don't care for others' IQ scores or MENSA membership. >Unsocial may do that for themselves, out of curiosity, for an idea, to fight with reality, because they can. But not to impress some guy out there. Well, that's another thing, and we can respect that. But MENSA members ofter are more annoying braggards than even vegans...
GekkePrutser 6y ago
I've never joined Mensa but I very clearly see the thing about neglecting physical and social pursuits because they are harder than intellectual ones :) Makes sense to choose things you're naturally good in, it's not really a 'preoccupation' as such. Someone who is great at sports will tend to focus on that. It's just natural to direct yourself towards pursuits that come easily. The problem with this thing of course is that it's self-enforcing. Less experience with social interaction causes even less ability. In the end that can lead to psychological issues. It did for me too, but I was really helped by my therapists and put back on track <3
- underwater 6y ago
  Adopting a sedentary lifestyle isn't very smart. You'd think a club of high-IQ folk would know better.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - astrange 6y ago
    A good example is that world chess champions are actually very athletic, especially the Soviet ones in the past and Magnus Carlsen today. My FAANG experience is that people like outdoor sports and going to the gym too, I wonder where all the Linux con t-shirts and drinking Jolt cola people went…
    - rory 6y ago
      In my experience, mostly DevOps.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
  - throwaway58942 6y ago
    While I was still in school I joined an event for people that were really good at math, like 1-2 students per school could attend. I think it went for almost a week and then there were subsequent monthly lectures, unfortunately about discrete mathematics which I didn't enjoy that much. In retrospect, you could definitely see that some people came from bad social backgrounds (and thus didn't wear the best clothes for instance) that were just there because they were so smart. But for instance there was also a guy from a very privileged background who went to private school (yes, clean clothes, confident and good at sports) who was actually a jerk. Anyways, there were also fairly average appearing people. What I want to say is, I think the whole observation is very skewed. People from not so privileged backgrounds are usually not that visible, but just because of a high IQ might enter opportunities (university, job, social circles) that might be otherwise inaccessible und thus they get into the spotlight.
deleted 6y ago
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slg 6y ago
People curious about Mensa should check out Jamie Loftus's podcast My Year In Mensa[1]. She is a writer/journalist/comedian who wanted to investigate the organization. She passed the test, joined Mensa, and was immediately ostracized once she began reporting on her experience. I'll just charitably summarize it to say that there are a variety of reasons why people join Mensa and many join for reasons outside what we might consider traditional "intellectual pursuits". I don't think their members are truly representative of people with high IQs or I at least hope not. [1] - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/my-year-in-mensa/id1492147103 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/my-year-in-mensa/id149...
- FabHK 6y ago
  Keep in mind that there is huge variety among the national Mensa groups, and presumably also within a country. I haven't gotten around to listening to that podcast, but from what I gather it is not representative of Mensa, either.
  - slg 6y ago
    I tried not to paint with too broad a brush. There are clearly people who join for those "intellectual pursuit" reasons, but that doesn't negate the people who join for less noble reasons. I have no idea of the percentage breakdown in the two, but the second group clearly does exist and can be a real problem.
    - FabHK 6y ago
      > I tried not to paint with too broad a brush. Yes, your comment seemed fair! I was referring to the podcast itself. However, instead of responding further, let me first listen to the podcast, rather than relying on second-hand assessments.
      - slg 6y ago
        The podcast definitely focuses on those problem members more than the good because egotistical assholes make for a more interesting story than mild-mannered retired college professor types who certainly make up a sizable portion of Mensa. However I also think it is fair to criticize a group as a whole when they fail to do anything to even try to curtail their worst members. And obviously don't feel like you owe me any response after you listen or to even listen at all, I just recommend it for those interested in what Mensa can be like and the whole series is a relatively quick listen coming in at under 3 hours.
jacquesm 6y ago
It'd be funny if the organization behind Mensa decided to re-test everybody on account of the COVID pandemic to ensure that their high standards are maintained and that members who drop below the required IQ for entry get culled accordingly. And of course ditto for those reaching a certain age, we would not want any accidental cases of Alzheimers posing as high IQ individuals now, would we?
- mirekrusin 6y ago
  You become Mensa member for life, ie. if you have brain injury and your IQ drops to 80, you're still Mensan.
  - ModernMech 6y ago
    > if you have brain injury and your IQ drops to 80, you're still Mensan. I'd always assumed they were called Mensees.
myth2018 6y ago
I joined Mensa many years ago. I'm indeed a bit insecure about my intelligence. But when I took the test I was actually surfing an overconfidence wave, getting extremely positive feedback on my first job and being considered a prodigy -- it turned out that I was suffering from a very bad case of illusion of competence and my coworkers weren't particularly strong on electronics. Well, but I didn't know that by then. It turns out that, now looking back, I realize I sought Mensa because I was feeling extremely alone. I was always thinking or working on something alone, since my teenagehood, and I was getting tired, despite the admiration I sporadically sparked. Unfortunately Mensa didn't help on that. I really disliked the experience. The people, its goals, everything. The only piece of advice I got regarding my loneliness issue happened right after I delivered my test to the psychotherapist. She only said that I should try to find friends regardless of their IQs, because life isn't only about that. She was right.
toyota86 6y ago
> people insecure enough to join an IQ-restricted club I don't understand this sentiment. There are race/ethnicity-restricted clubs, men-only clubs, athletic clubs, equestrian clubs, farmers clubs, car ownership clubs. However, when it's about IQ (something which you say you hold in disdain), suddenly out come the insults. Insecure nerds, right? They only have their insignificant test scores, they must be a despicable lot! Did you ever stop to consider that people might be seeking something different, that this is their attempt at finding other people with similar interests? There is nothing wrong with one valuing their own high IQ test score. Disclaimer: I have never taken an IQ test, but if I did I probably wouldn't get into Mensa, extrapolating from previous test scores and grades.
- johnfn 6y ago
  I was just about to make the exact same comment, but I think you articulated it perfectly. People are fine with literally every other type of neurodiversity but god help you if you so much as mention intelligence. I mean just look at all the negative sentiment going on in the rest of these comments. Guys, there’s nothing wrong about seeking out people similar to yourself.
- astrange 6y ago
  A score on a test doesn't imply enough for you to actually have things in common. (However, just being in a secret club might motivate you enough to find some things to talk about.) You can get the Mensa experience without joining by having a Quora account - their AI always picks the oddest topics to send to you. For the longest time it would send me all the "what's it like to have a high IQ?" questions and I noticed 1. it wasn't really like anything, and 2. I didn't want to hang out with the people answering them. You could also read rationalist-associated blogs, several of which are written by people who if you leave them alone for ten minutes try to reinvent eugenics. e.g. I was linked this one yesterday: https://fantasticanachronism.com/2021/03/23/two-paths-to-the-future/ https://fantasticanachronism.com/2021/03/23/two-paths-to-the... and there is like no self-reflection on the concept that maybe optimizing babies for "IQ" will not get you what you want, and that maybe Singapore is not actually genetically better or worse than other places, and neither was John von Neumann.
seriousquestion 6y ago
"I decided to take an I.Q. test administered by Mensa, the organization of geniuses. If you score in the top 2% of people who take that same test, you get to call yourself a “genius” and optionally join the group. I squeaked in and immediately joined so I could hang out with the other geniuses and do genius things. I even volunteered to host some meetings at my apartment. Then, the horror. It turns out that the people who join Mensa and attend meetings are, on average, not successful titans of industry. They are instead – and I say this with great affection – huge losers. I was making $735 per month and I was like frickin’ Goldfinger in this crowd. We had a guy who was some sort of poet who hoped to one day start “writing some of them down.” We had people who were literally too smart to hold a job. The rest of the group dressed too much like street people to ever get past security for a job interview. And everyone was always available for meetings on weekend nights." Scott Adams https://woodrow.typepad.com/the_ponderings_of_woodrow/2006/11/scott_adams_on_.html https://woodrow.typepad.com/the_ponderings_of_woodrow/2006/1...
TheKnack 6y ago
The "My Year in Mensa" podcast is a good (and entertaining) way to understand some of what really goes on in Mensa, and what type of people are likely to join. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/my-year-in-mensa/id1492147103 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/my-year-in-mensa/id149...
silicon2401 6y ago
> but maybe people insecure enough to join an IQ-restricted club are more likely to be those who suffer from setbacks in other parts of their lives. to me this reads similar to the old misconception that all bullies are insecure (it's often quite the opposite). what makes you think that people engaging in a group based on what they feel is a big part of their identity are insecure? Do you think gay people in pride parades, minorities in various race groups, etc are insecure? I'm not taking a position on mensa, gender, etc. I just don't agree with the idea that people joining mensa are necessarily insecure.
- rory 6y ago
  > Do you think gay people in pride parades, minorities in various race groups, etc are insecure? Well, uh, yeah, sort of.. I thought the whole point of gay/ethnic/etc pride events was to overcome the insecurity caused by marginalization in society. Is that not the case?
  - silicon2401 6y ago
    I don't know, I don't have insecurities relating to personal identity (despite being in various categories that some people would label marginalized, though I disagree with that worldview fundamentally) so I can't say how people who do have such insecurities think. If I joined a group about XYZ it would be because I want to engage in XYZ activity or discuss XYZ topic with others, just like religious people go to their various religious activities and so on. I'm not disagreeing that some of these people in Mensa, parades, etc may in fact feel insecure, but I do want to point out that engaging in a group about a topic doesn't mean you're insecure
  - pseudalopex 6y ago
    People like celebrating their roots even if they don't feel insecure. Overcoming shame is part of gay pride. But it was also a way to overcome marginalization. And lots of people go just to have fun now.
JoeAltmaier 6y ago
Its popular to imagine that smart people have some pitiable deficits. I'm afraid that many, many smart people are doing just fine. If they join a club, its often for the same reason anyone else joins a club - to meet people with like interests.
- rory 6y ago
  I'm not drawing a distinction between smart and not-smart people here. I'm suggesting that perhaps the 99% of people qualified for Mensa who don't join are better-adjusted than the 1% who do join.
biolurker1 6y ago
You can join to find your peers. Like when you watch a football match, you don't join the club cause you feel insecure of your athleticism.
wenc 6y ago
I joined Mensa at age 12 on a whim just to check out what it was all about. I had mostly positive experiences -- Mensa gave me a peer-group of grown-ups (mostly professionals) from whom I learned a lot. As a kid, my development was a little out of sync with that of my peers, so I really appreciated having a venue for conversations with adults who weren't my parents. I think I grew up faster that way because Mensa folks interacted with me as though I was an adult (even though I wasn't yet) -- no one talked down to me. Folks also really took care of me (paid for my meals, gave me rides home because they knew I had to take 2 buses to get to the restaurants we usually met in). We had a lot of fun eating out together and talking about life. There was also the monthly national newsletter, in which members wrote in about their varied interests, from computers to chess to philosophy (this back in the early 90s when the Internet wasn't yet a thing). So many of my interests of that era came about from learning about new stuff through the newsletter. I remember having great fun corresponding via snail mail with people of like mind. I can't vouch for the experience in every Mensa chapter (I have been in meetings which were full of hyper-rationalist types who were low in emotional intelligence), but the chapter I was part of during my formative years really left a mark on me. (in a good way)

by rory 6y ago

Consultant32452 6y ago

My limited experience with Mensa is that it's a social/dating club for high IQ people. It's been too long for me to remember the details, but I recall reading about studies that suggest relationships where IQs are too far apart (more than 5-10pts) have a high failure rate. If you're more than a standard deviation from the mean, it probably makes sense to have a special dating circle if you're looking for a long term partner.

rory 6y ago
That's interesting. Similar to how many people rely on university networks to segregate their dating pool roughly by IQ (although more informally). Is the gender ratio reasonable for straight couples? My imagined version of Mensa is a club that mostly attracts men.
- Consultant32452 6y ago
  IQ is not distributed equally among men and women. The median is the same, but there are more men at the extremes for IQ (both high and low). Mensa membership is 66% male. https://www.us.mensa.org/learn/about/demographics/ https://www.us.mensa.org/learn/about/demographics/
  - mhh__ 6y ago
    This is a weird one. There does seem to be evidence in support of the variation hypothesis, but merely mentioning its existence while not being a woman is enough to get you sacked. The thing I don't get about that, or at least I obviously do get it but it lead to think, surely if you were hiring in volume you might be better off hiring women anyway since you can more precisely know what kind of candidates you want to hire?
    - mamon 6y ago
      Variation hypothesis actually makes sense from evolutionary point of view: you need as many women as you can get to produce offsprings, but only small number of men suffices to impregnate them all. So men are disposable, therefore they are where the mother nature does its risky experiments.
      - carabiner 6y ago
        This may be true, but I suggest you keep this to yourself. We also see that college majors with the highest average IQ (like Physics, Engineering) have the least women: http://www.randalolson.com/2014/06/25/average-iq-of-students-by-college-major-and-gender-ratio/ http://www.randalolson.com/2014/06/25/average-iq-of-students...
    - 2-tpg 6y ago
      For diversity and inclusion in AI papers, they bring up facts like "All of the top 10 most-cited AI researchers are men" and then posit this as bad, and in support of a 50%-50% gender representation in AI. Like in: The field still has a long way to go. Not: we judged these extremely rare geniuses on their gender, and when you do this, you get bad diversity-and-inclusion optics. And how to solve that perceived problem? Judge other academics on their gender, place them in a victimized group, and then compose your reference list with that in mind? The top 10 starts doing exactly that, because the guilt they feel is real. So they say nothing when privileged researchers can use the LatinX-in-AI, Women-in-AI, Black-in-AI, Gay-in-AI, Jewish-in-AI backdoors to get in a prestigious AI conference publication.
Matticus_Rex 6y ago
From what I've heard from some young women who were involved with Mensa early, it has aspects of a grooming club as well =(

Mountain_Skies 6y ago

I joined to have something to put on my otherwise bare resume coming out of university. Never renewed my membership. Their magazine was better than I expected but the local newsletter didn't inspire me to actually show up at any meetings. From the few other Mensa members I've met, it seemed like they were active members in order to be able to socialize with people who were of "birds of a feather" so to speak rather than out of an insecurity but this is from a rather small sample size of maybe seven or eight people.

desireco42 6y ago
I was happy I had a score, but like you, I let my membership lapse. I also remember magazine to be good. It is nice to talk to people who think well, I had few friends who were also eligible and it was really nice to talk to them even if their interests didn't exactly match mine.
rory 6y ago
I can relate to this. I put my SAT score on my resume until I was 23 or 24. Kind of embarrassing, but I was desperate for a way to show I was smart.
- DaveExeter 6y ago
  What's embarrassing about that? If I were hiring, I would like to know every applicant's SAT score.
  - rychco 6y ago
    You'd like to know the score your 22-24 year old candidate received on the SAT that he took when he was 17-19? How is that relevant?
    - DaveExeter 6y ago
      SAT scores are the closest thing we have to a universal IQ test. I'd like to know the approximate IQ of a candidate. I recall reading somewhere that Google did a study on hires and found that the only thing that correlated with success at Google was SAT score. Not GPA, not specific college attended, etc.

desireco42 6y ago

You are saying that only because they didn't accept you there :)

pizza234 6y ago

Update: I'm reading people with (more) negative experiences. I guess YMMV :) Still, I wouldn't draw absolute conclusions based on this. I was a Mensa associate, and participated to evening meetings in two countries (evening meetings are only part of the activities). You're assuming, with "people insecure enough to join an IQ-restricted club", that associates sit on a high horse due to their IQ. It was quite the opposite; the clubs are very friendly, and what I remember is actually, fun nights playing board and social games (it's amusing to think that a significant part of a "high IQ" club is games :)). Definitely, nobody would recognize it was a Mensa meeeting if they didn't know it already. In my personal view, joining the club because of (relatively) high IQ was no different than joining, say, a chess club - meeting people who have something in common. Needless to say, there were lots of programmers :)

SavantIdiot 6y ago
That's interesting. I joined and was immediately turned off by the group. The difference with joining a chess club is you get to play chess. So let's turn your proposal around: What do you get to do in a High IQ club that is different from any random collection of people? Besides talk about how you are in MENSA?
- foepys 6y ago
  Just like in a fraternity, you get connections. Mensa is basically a network of highly intelligent people (or at least people with high IQ) that help each other in different ways for further their education and career. Being part of Mensa can open doors that would otherwise be locked or very hard to open.
  - SavantIdiot 6y ago
    > Just like in a fraternity, you get connections. Gender segregated groups in the year 2021 have just entered chat. Nepotism has just entered chat. You have left chat.
  - beaconstudios 6y ago

longtom 6y ago

Yeah, it's kinda embarrassing and funny at the same time how this study is likely saying more about Mensa members than about high IQ people in general.

MrFantastic 6y ago

My experience at MENSA meetings was a bunch of people bragging about their IQ. Many had their IQ listed on their name tag.

FabHK 6y ago
What country? I've never seen that at Mensa in Germany, Hong Kong, Netherlands, Malaysia, UK, US, or elsewhere, really. In fact, the matter of IQ has rarely if ever come up at all (except in abstract discussions of testing, factor analysis, operationalisation, objectivity/reliability/validity, etc.).
rory 6y ago
That makes me want to crash a meeting wearing some nonsensical number like 500 and challenge anyone who questioned it to a "battle of wits".

coldtea 6y ago

>I'm not sure exactly what Mensa does Gives a mermbership certificate and a number that they think they brag about to socially naive, gullible and arrogant (but otherwise smart), people (I say "think they can brag about" because nobody will actually be impressed by it, and it just makes them appear as crude idiots - IQ is not an accomplishment by itself, and the proof of genius is in genius work).

wruza 6y ago
It’s your requirement though, not theirs. I’m not part of Mensa and have no chance neither will to join, but this attitude “do some genius work then we’ll talk” really annoys me. It’s unlikely that I will do, but if I did, we wouldn’t talk, cause who cares. Like they need to work hard to prove something to a stranger (I’d make it invalidate membership). Some people can beat that score, some cannot, that’s it. Social people do things to feel accepted and loved (or feared, or hated). Unsocial may do that for themselves, out of curiosity, for an idea, to fight with reality, because they can. But not to impress some guy out there. It doesn’t have to be utilitarian; analyzing sudoku solving methods with 4 digits or playing other hard “games” is as intellectual as creating a cure for cancer. The only difference is how some Joe judges or benefits from it, which is irrelevant. If this reads harsh, I did not mean it, but you social guys think you understand better, but often you do not. I never announced my iq because I’ve seen that the answer other people usually get is either “ooh that’s high” or “what are you bragging about, it’s a number” or “mine is N”. Never heard the one that I find actually interesting: “which test it was, and oh, how did you analyze Nth, because it has three patterns with similar fitness, but only two were available as an answer”. Never once.
- coldtea 6y ago
  >I’m not part of Mensa and have no chance neither will to join, but this attitude “do some genius work then we’ll talk” really annoys me It's not "do some genius work then we’ll talk" though. It's more "Until you do some genius work don't brag to me about how smart you are in IQ points". >It’s unlikely that I will do, but if I did, we wouldn’t talk, cause who cares. It's actually the opposite: people do care about genius work others do, as it can be touching (e.g. in art), evolutionary (e.g. in science), impactful (in tech, etc). Whereas people don't care for others' IQ scores or MENSA membership. >Unsocial may do that for themselves, out of curiosity, for an idea, to fight with reality, because they can. But not to impress some guy out there. Well, that's another thing, and we can respect that. But MENSA members ofter are more annoying braggards than even vegans...

GekkePrutser 6y ago

I've never joined Mensa but I very clearly see the thing about neglecting physical and social pursuits because they are harder than intellectual ones :) Makes sense to choose things you're naturally good in, it's not really a 'preoccupation' as such. Someone who is great at sports will tend to focus on that. It's just natural to direct yourself towards pursuits that come easily. The problem with this thing of course is that it's self-enforcing. Less experience with social interaction causes even less ability. In the end that can lead to psychological issues. It did for me too, but I was really helped by my therapists and put back on track <3

underwater 6y ago
Adopting a sedentary lifestyle isn't very smart. You'd think a club of high-IQ folk would know better.
- deleted 6y ago
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- astrange 6y ago
  A good example is that world chess champions are actually very athletic, especially the Soviet ones in the past and Magnus Carlsen today. My FAANG experience is that people like outdoor sports and going to the gym too, I wonder where all the Linux con t-shirts and drinking Jolt cola people went…
  - rory 6y ago
    In my experience, mostly DevOps.
  - deleted 6y ago
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- throwaway58942 6y ago
  While I was still in school I joined an event for people that were really good at math, like 1-2 students per school could attend. I think it went for almost a week and then there were subsequent monthly lectures, unfortunately about discrete mathematics which I didn't enjoy that much. In retrospect, you could definitely see that some people came from bad social backgrounds (and thus didn't wear the best clothes for instance) that were just there because they were so smart. But for instance there was also a guy from a very privileged background who went to private school (yes, clean clothes, confident and good at sports) who was actually a jerk. Anyways, there were also fairly average appearing people. What I want to say is, I think the whole observation is very skewed. People from not so privileged backgrounds are usually not that visible, but just because of a high IQ might enter opportunities (university, job, social circles) that might be otherwise inaccessible und thus they get into the spotlight.

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slg 6y ago

People curious about Mensa should check out Jamie Loftus's podcast My Year In Mensa[1]. She is a writer/journalist/comedian who wanted to investigate the organization. She passed the test, joined Mensa, and was immediately ostracized once she began reporting on her experience. I'll just charitably summarize it to say that there are a variety of reasons why people join Mensa and many join for reasons outside what we might consider traditional "intellectual pursuits". I don't think their members are truly representative of people with high IQs or I at least hope not. [1] - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/my-year-in-mensa/id1492147103 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/my-year-in-mensa/id149...

FabHK 6y ago
Keep in mind that there is huge variety among the national Mensa groups, and presumably also within a country. I haven't gotten around to listening to that podcast, but from what I gather it is not representative of Mensa, either.
- slg 6y ago
  I tried not to paint with too broad a brush. There are clearly people who join for those "intellectual pursuit" reasons, but that doesn't negate the people who join for less noble reasons. I have no idea of the percentage breakdown in the two, but the second group clearly does exist and can be a real problem.
  - FabHK 6y ago
    > I tried not to paint with too broad a brush. Yes, your comment seemed fair! I was referring to the podcast itself. However, instead of responding further, let me first listen to the podcast, rather than relying on second-hand assessments.
    - slg 6y ago
      The podcast definitely focuses on those problem members more than the good because egotistical assholes make for a more interesting story than mild-mannered retired college professor types who certainly make up a sizable portion of Mensa. However I also think it is fair to criticize a group as a whole when they fail to do anything to even try to curtail their worst members. And obviously don't feel like you owe me any response after you listen or to even listen at all, I just recommend it for those interested in what Mensa can be like and the whole series is a relatively quick listen coming in at under 3 hours.

jacquesm 6y ago

It'd be funny if the organization behind Mensa decided to re-test everybody on account of the COVID pandemic to ensure that their high standards are maintained and that members who drop below the required IQ for entry get culled accordingly. And of course ditto for those reaching a certain age, we would not want any accidental cases of Alzheimers posing as high IQ individuals now, would we?

mirekrusin 6y ago
You become Mensa member for life, ie. if you have brain injury and your IQ drops to 80, you're still Mensan.
- ModernMech 6y ago
  > if you have brain injury and your IQ drops to 80, you're still Mensan. I'd always assumed they were called Mensees.

myth2018 6y ago

I joined Mensa many years ago. I'm indeed a bit insecure about my intelligence. But when I took the test I was actually surfing an overconfidence wave, getting extremely positive feedback on my first job and being considered a prodigy -- it turned out that I was suffering from a very bad case of illusion of competence and my coworkers weren't particularly strong on electronics. Well, but I didn't know that by then. It turns out that, now looking back, I realize I sought Mensa because I was feeling extremely alone. I was always thinking or working on something alone, since my teenagehood, and I was getting tired, despite the admiration I sporadically sparked. Unfortunately Mensa didn't help on that. I really disliked the experience. The people, its goals, everything. The only piece of advice I got regarding my loneliness issue happened right after I delivered my test to the psychotherapist. She only said that I should try to find friends regardless of their IQs, because life isn't only about that. She was right.

toyota86 6y ago

> people insecure enough to join an IQ-restricted club I don't understand this sentiment. There are race/ethnicity-restricted clubs, men-only clubs, athletic clubs, equestrian clubs, farmers clubs, car ownership clubs. However, when it's about IQ (something which you say you hold in disdain), suddenly out come the insults. Insecure nerds, right? They only have their insignificant test scores, they must be a despicable lot! Did you ever stop to consider that people might be seeking something different, that this is their attempt at finding other people with similar interests? There is nothing wrong with one valuing their own high IQ test score. Disclaimer: I have never taken an IQ test, but if I did I probably wouldn't get into Mensa, extrapolating from previous test scores and grades.

johnfn 6y ago
I was just about to make the exact same comment, but I think you articulated it perfectly. People are fine with literally every other type of neurodiversity but god help you if you so much as mention intelligence. I mean just look at all the negative sentiment going on in the rest of these comments. Guys, there’s nothing wrong about seeking out people similar to yourself.
astrange 6y ago
A score on a test doesn't imply enough for you to actually have things in common. (However, just being in a secret club might motivate you enough to find some things to talk about.) You can get the Mensa experience without joining by having a Quora account - their AI always picks the oddest topics to send to you. For the longest time it would send me all the "what's it like to have a high IQ?" questions and I noticed 1. it wasn't really like anything, and 2. I didn't want to hang out with the people answering them. You could also read rationalist-associated blogs, several of which are written by people who if you leave them alone for ten minutes try to reinvent eugenics. e.g. I was linked this one yesterday: https://fantasticanachronism.com/2021/03/23/two-paths-to-the-future/ https://fantasticanachronism.com/2021/03/23/two-paths-to-the... and there is like no self-reflection on the concept that maybe optimizing babies for "IQ" will not get you what you want, and that maybe Singapore is not actually genetically better or worse than other places, and neither was John von Neumann.

seriousquestion 6y ago

"I decided to take an I.Q. test administered by Mensa, the organization of geniuses. If you score in the top 2% of people who take that same test, you get to call yourself a “genius” and optionally join the group. I squeaked in and immediately joined so I could hang out with the other geniuses and do genius things. I even volunteered to host some meetings at my apartment. Then, the horror. It turns out that the people who join Mensa and attend meetings are, on average, not successful titans of industry. They are instead – and I say this with great affection – huge losers. I was making $735 per month and I was like frickin’ Goldfinger in this crowd. We had a guy who was some sort of poet who hoped to one day start “writing some of them down.” We had people who were literally too smart to hold a job. The rest of the group dressed too much like street people to ever get past security for a job interview. And everyone was always available for meetings on weekend nights." Scott Adams https://woodrow.typepad.com/the_ponderings_of_woodrow/2006/11/scott_adams_on_.html https://woodrow.typepad.com/the_ponderings_of_woodrow/2006/1...

TheKnack 6y ago

The "My Year in Mensa" podcast is a good (and entertaining) way to understand some of what really goes on in Mensa, and what type of people are likely to join. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/my-year-in-mensa/id1492147103 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/my-year-in-mensa/id149...

silicon2401 6y ago

> but maybe people insecure enough to join an IQ-restricted club are more likely to be those who suffer from setbacks in other parts of their lives. to me this reads similar to the old misconception that all bullies are insecure (it's often quite the opposite). what makes you think that people engaging in a group based on what they feel is a big part of their identity are insecure? Do you think gay people in pride parades, minorities in various race groups, etc are insecure? I'm not taking a position on mensa, gender, etc. I just don't agree with the idea that people joining mensa are necessarily insecure.

rory 6y ago
> Do you think gay people in pride parades, minorities in various race groups, etc are insecure? Well, uh, yeah, sort of.. I thought the whole point of gay/ethnic/etc pride events was to overcome the insecurity caused by marginalization in society. Is that not the case?
- silicon2401 6y ago
  I don't know, I don't have insecurities relating to personal identity (despite being in various categories that some people would label marginalized, though I disagree with that worldview fundamentally) so I can't say how people who do have such insecurities think. If I joined a group about XYZ it would be because I want to engage in XYZ activity or discuss XYZ topic with others, just like religious people go to their various religious activities and so on. I'm not disagreeing that some of these people in Mensa, parades, etc may in fact feel insecure, but I do want to point out that engaging in a group about a topic doesn't mean you're insecure
- pseudalopex 6y ago
  People like celebrating their roots even if they don't feel insecure. Overcoming shame is part of gay pride. But it was also a way to overcome marginalization. And lots of people go just to have fun now.

JoeAltmaier 6y ago

Its popular to imagine that smart people have some pitiable deficits. I'm afraid that many, many smart people are doing just fine. If they join a club, its often for the same reason anyone else joins a club - to meet people with like interests.

rory 6y ago
I'm not drawing a distinction between smart and not-smart people here. I'm suggesting that perhaps the 99% of people qualified for Mensa who don't join are better-adjusted than the 1% who do join.

biolurker1 6y ago

You can join to find your peers. Like when you watch a football match, you don't join the club cause you feel insecure of your athleticism.

wenc 6y ago

I joined Mensa at age 12 on a whim just to check out what it was all about. I had mostly positive experiences -- Mensa gave me a peer-group of grown-ups (mostly professionals) from whom I learned a lot. As a kid, my development was a little out of sync with that of my peers, so I really appreciated having a venue for conversations with adults who weren't my parents. I think I grew up faster that way because Mensa folks interacted with me as though I was an adult (even though I wasn't yet) -- no one talked down to me. Folks also really took care of me (paid for my meals, gave me rides home because they knew I had to take 2 buses to get to the restaurants we usually met in). We had a lot of fun eating out together and talking about life. There was also the monthly national newsletter, in which members wrote in about their varied interests, from computers to chess to philosophy (this back in the early 90s when the Internet wasn't yet a thing). So many of my interests of that era came about from learning about new stuff through the newsletter. I remember having great fun corresponding via snail mail with people of like mind. I can't vouch for the experience in every Mensa chapter (I have been in meetings which were full of hyper-rationalist types who were low in emotional intelligence), but the chapter I was part of during my formative years really left a mark on me. (in a good way)