6 ms·

Apple's Retail Philosophy - Employees reveal calculated culture

49 points by abhigupta 15y ago

GBond 15y ago
link to WSJ article sited http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304563104576364071955678908.html#printMode http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405270230456310457636...
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- tptacek 15y ago
  As usual, you can read the whole thing by searching for the headline ("Secrets From Apple's Genius Bar: Full Loyalty, No Negativity") on Google News. This AdWeek summary add no value and inserts a weirdly sensationalized headline.
gaius 15y ago
I was in the Apple store in Covent Garden recently, I knew what I wanted and had phoned in advance to check they had it, so I was just there to pick it up. As a former consultant, I am trained in exactly these sorts of techniques, and can easily spot them, and Apple's training is too good. I don't know how it is to regular people, but the Apple employees I spoke to were downright creepy. Whatever the actual-human equivalent of the "uncanny valley" is. I'll stick to the online store I think and just deal with the hassle of having to be in when I'm expecting a courier.
- tptacek 15y ago
  The "technique" you're talking about is "not trying to sell stuff". That bothers you?
  - gaius 15y ago
    The technique is "quickly build a rapport with this person". It feels like being manipulated just as much as outright sales technique, because, well, it is.
    - JonnieCache 15y ago
      Agreed. Don't know if it's like this everywhere, but the apple retail employees I've dealt with have all been creepy like this. The uncanny valley is a good analogy. It's like being sold stuff using mental judo by NLP robots. I occasionally also get the feeling when talking to them that I might suddenly wake up and realise that I've been having a dream about being trapped in an aspirational TV advert. But I'm british so maybe the whole thing just clashes with our general mistrust of our brother man. We just can't really believe that anyone is actually being nice to us for no benefit to themselves.
      - alanthonyc 15y ago
        "But I'm British..." That's interesting. I wonder if gaius is also. Maybe it's a cultural thing. I find Apple Store employees to be extra "friendly", if that's the word, but not overly so.
        JonnieCache 15y ago
        I am british, but let it also be known that I am often a miserable bastard, and this may also be a factor. This isn't really science.
        gaius 15y ago
        I'm English, yes.
    - napierzaza 15y ago
      It's true. They should act as if they don't like you and can't be bothered. Did you read that WSJ article where they unveiled that they aren't trying to directly sell to you? Oh, it's this one.
- wunderfool 15y ago
  agreed. i'd rather have a genuine conversation with a real human. as an aside, i think the interior design motif of the stores has grown stale
omouse 15y ago
It's a shame they don't pour more time into making employees happy by giving them better benefits and wages.
- tptacek 15y ago
  They're among the most successful retail operations in the world, and are a desirable employer for people working retail. Is there a specific reason you think they should "pour more time into making employees happy", or are you just inclined to say this about any company?
  - sorbus 15y ago
    There was a thing a while back about Apple's retail employees complaining about low wages and few benefits, but I don't think that the allegations were ever confirmed, or that anything came out of it. The GP may have been referencing that. Actually, a bit of Googling shows that this is still going on, with employees trying to unionize. According to [1], one person wants "to form a union to fight for better wages and benefits and to address what he says are unfair practices". [1] http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/06/12/us-apple-idUSTRE75B1FL20110612 http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/06/12/us-apple-idUSTRE75...
    - tptacek 15y ago
      It's one guy, who says he's gotten little public support. But even if he had a deep wellspring of support: this is supply and demand. Apple is a highly specialized retailer that nonetheless can draw on hundreds of thousands of potentially qualified candidates. How could a union change that dynamic?
StudyAnimal 15y ago
What shops don't do this?
- revscat 15y ago
  Best Buy. Auto dealerships. Any place that tries to upsell you something.
tptacek 15y ago
You could substitute "carefully designed" for "calculated", which has a negative cast not justified by the WSJ's story. Details about Apple's retail culture include: * The stores were consciously designed to be uncluttered and less threatening than big-box electronic stores, and benefit from fewer locations and a focus on a single brand. * The retail operation is run by seasoned retail veterans, not CS majors. * Growth in Apple's retail locations is strong and beats the general trend of decline in retail in general. * It's hard to get a job in Apple retail, at least compared to other retail jobs. * It doesn't pay much better than typical retail jobs. * Retail is not a good career path into Apple corporate. * You can't write online about Apple and expect to keep a job at an Apple store. * Apple retail employees don't get sales commission and are trained not to sell, although you can get reassigned if you upsell fewer AppleCare plans than Apple expects of its retail team. * If you've found Apple employees to be unthreatening, helpful, laid back, and easygoing, that's because Apple trained its team to do that. * Don't be repeatedly late or you'll get fired.
- tvon 15y ago
  Indeed, how calculating, it's almost as if someone at Apple read "How to Win Friends & Influence People".
astrofinch 15y ago
Based on the article, Apple seems pretty effective with this--I'm curious if non-Apple salespeople would be more effective if they followed these principles, or if it only works for Apple.
r00fus 15y ago
One can only hope that JCP will gain a lot of this customer-oriented focus when Ron Johnson is firmly in place.
Apocryphon 15y ago
This article is a lot shorter than I expected, but it does teach something critical: if someone (especially an Apple employee) uses the phrase "as it turns out", be ready for bad news!
MatthewPhillips 15y ago
Not selling can have a negative impression on the customer, though. I have noticed that they don't sell hard; I interpreted it as hubris. That my sale is unimportant to them because of how crowded the place always is. It's one thing to play it cool but you also shouldn't seem disinterested or make the customer feel unimportant.
learc83 15y ago
Having worked at Best Buy during college and for a few years after, this is what Best Buy has been trying to do for a while now. They try to encourage solving problems, and building rapport instead of selling. However, the problem with Best Buy is follow through. This kind of training comes down from corporate, but the district managers are allowed to run their districts like their own little fiefdom. Since most of the district managers (and store managers) got to where they are b/c they are great salesmen, they push the salesman attitude onto everyone else.
- morganw 15y ago
  > building rapport instead of selling[...] This kind of training comes down from corporate, but the district managers are allowed to run their districts like their own little fiefdom. So then what's the point? Why pretend to have a retail philosophy if individual salespeople are sent out on the floor to hawk satellite subscriptions?
shithead 15y ago
> using natural materials like wood, glass, stone and stainless steel. Boggle. Nature so advanced it includes glass and steel. They grow in trees, I suppose.

49 points by abhigupta 15y ago

GBond 15y ago

link to WSJ article sited http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304563104576364071955678908.html#printMode http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405270230456310457636...

deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
tptacek 15y ago
As usual, you can read the whole thing by searching for the headline ("Secrets From Apple's Genius Bar: Full Loyalty, No Negativity") on Google News. This AdWeek summary add no value and inserts a weirdly sensationalized headline.

gaius 15y ago

I was in the Apple store in Covent Garden recently, I knew what I wanted and had phoned in advance to check they had it, so I was just there to pick it up. As a former consultant, I am trained in exactly these sorts of techniques, and can easily spot them, and Apple's training is too good. I don't know how it is to regular people, but the Apple employees I spoke to were downright creepy. Whatever the actual-human equivalent of the "uncanny valley" is. I'll stick to the online store I think and just deal with the hassle of having to be in when I'm expecting a courier.

tptacek 15y ago
The "technique" you're talking about is "not trying to sell stuff". That bothers you?
- gaius 15y ago
  The technique is "quickly build a rapport with this person". It feels like being manipulated just as much as outright sales technique, because, well, it is.
  - JonnieCache 15y ago
    Agreed. Don't know if it's like this everywhere, but the apple retail employees I've dealt with have all been creepy like this. The uncanny valley is a good analogy. It's like being sold stuff using mental judo by NLP robots. I occasionally also get the feeling when talking to them that I might suddenly wake up and realise that I've been having a dream about being trapped in an aspirational TV advert. But I'm british so maybe the whole thing just clashes with our general mistrust of our brother man. We just can't really believe that anyone is actually being nice to us for no benefit to themselves.
    - alanthonyc 15y ago
      "But I'm British..." That's interesting. I wonder if gaius is also. Maybe it's a cultural thing. I find Apple Store employees to be extra "friendly", if that's the word, but not overly so.
      - JonnieCache 15y ago
        I am british, but let it also be known that I am often a miserable bastard, and this may also be a factor. This isn't really science.
      - gaius 15y ago
        I'm English, yes.
  - napierzaza 15y ago
    It's true. They should act as if they don't like you and can't be bothered. Did you read that WSJ article where they unveiled that they aren't trying to directly sell to you? Oh, it's this one.
wunderfool 15y ago
agreed. i'd rather have a genuine conversation with a real human. as an aside, i think the interior design motif of the stores has grown stale

omouse 15y ago

It's a shame they don't pour more time into making employees happy by giving them better benefits and wages.

tptacek 15y ago
They're among the most successful retail operations in the world, and are a desirable employer for people working retail. Is there a specific reason you think they should "pour more time into making employees happy", or are you just inclined to say this about any company?
- sorbus 15y ago
  There was a thing a while back about Apple's retail employees complaining about low wages and few benefits, but I don't think that the allegations were ever confirmed, or that anything came out of it. The GP may have been referencing that. Actually, a bit of Googling shows that this is still going on, with employees trying to unionize. According to [1], one person wants "to form a union to fight for better wages and benefits and to address what he says are unfair practices". [1] http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/06/12/us-apple-idUSTRE75B1FL20110612 http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/06/12/us-apple-idUSTRE75...
  - tptacek 15y ago
    It's one guy, who says he's gotten little public support. But even if he had a deep wellspring of support: this is supply and demand. Apple is a highly specialized retailer that nonetheless can draw on hundreds of thousands of potentially qualified candidates. How could a union change that dynamic?

StudyAnimal 15y ago

What shops don't do this?

revscat 15y ago
Best Buy. Auto dealerships. Any place that tries to upsell you something.

tptacek 15y ago

You could substitute "carefully designed" for "calculated", which has a negative cast not justified by the WSJ's story. Details about Apple's retail culture include: * The stores were consciously designed to be uncluttered and less threatening than big-box electronic stores, and benefit from fewer locations and a focus on a single brand. * The retail operation is run by seasoned retail veterans, not CS majors. * Growth in Apple's retail locations is strong and beats the general trend of decline in retail in general. * It's hard to get a job in Apple retail, at least compared to other retail jobs. * It doesn't pay much better than typical retail jobs. * Retail is not a good career path into Apple corporate. * You can't write online about Apple and expect to keep a job at an Apple store. * Apple retail employees don't get sales commission and are trained not to sell, although you can get reassigned if you upsell fewer AppleCare plans than Apple expects of its retail team. * If you've found Apple employees to be unthreatening, helpful, laid back, and easygoing, that's because Apple trained its team to do that. * Don't be repeatedly late or you'll get fired.

tvon 15y ago
Indeed, how calculating, it's almost as if someone at Apple read "How to Win Friends & Influence People".

astrofinch 15y ago

Based on the article, Apple seems pretty effective with this--I'm curious if non-Apple salespeople would be more effective if they followed these principles, or if it only works for Apple.

r00fus 15y ago

One can only hope that JCP will gain a lot of this customer-oriented focus when Ron Johnson is firmly in place.

Apocryphon 15y ago

This article is a lot shorter than I expected, but it does teach something critical: if someone (especially an Apple employee) uses the phrase "as it turns out", be ready for bad news!

MatthewPhillips 15y ago

Not selling can have a negative impression on the customer, though. I have noticed that they don't sell hard; I interpreted it as hubris. That my sale is unimportant to them because of how crowded the place always is. It's one thing to play it cool but you also shouldn't seem disinterested or make the customer feel unimportant.

learc83 15y ago

Having worked at Best Buy during college and for a few years after, this is what Best Buy has been trying to do for a while now. They try to encourage solving problems, and building rapport instead of selling. However, the problem with Best Buy is follow through. This kind of training comes down from corporate, but the district managers are allowed to run their districts like their own little fiefdom. Since most of the district managers (and store managers) got to where they are b/c they are great salesmen, they push the salesman attitude onto everyone else.

morganw 15y ago
> building rapport instead of selling[...] This kind of training comes down from corporate, but the district managers are allowed to run their districts like their own little fiefdom. So then what's the point? Why pretend to have a retail philosophy if individual salespeople are sent out on the floor to hawk satellite subscriptions?

shithead 15y ago

> using natural materials like wood, glass, stone and stainless steel. Boggle. Nature so advanced it includes glass and steel. They grow in trees, I suppose.