4 ms·

which party do I vote for if I want to stop US imperialism? which party do I vote for if I want MFA? Its not the Republicans, and its definitely not the Democra

which party do I vote for if I want to stop US imperialism? which party do I vote for if I want MFA? Its not the Republicans, and its definitely not the Democrats. Its no conspiracy theory to say the duopoly shuts down a lot of issues from being ever being addressed

2OEH8eoCRo0 6y ago
Why are there no US political parties advocating for the dissolution of the US?
- runarberg 6y ago
  Well there is the Aloha ʻĀina Party that seeks Hawaiian sovereignty, Several Cascadian independence movements that seek to seceded the Cascadian bioregion from the US. There is the Second Vermont Republic. Puerto Rico has a few parties advocating for independence, as are parties that advocate for Samoan unification. I’m less familiar with the federal level, but I wouldn’t be surprised to find the dissolution of the US (or at least the defederation in favor of a decentralized union) on the political left including several socialist and anarchist parties.
  - 2OEH8eoCRo0 6y ago
    So there are. That's cool. There seems to be a selfish trend where someone with a legitimate though perhaps unpopular opinion expects to be given more consideration than others. Complains that the game is rigged since their unpopular opinion is not allowed to jump the line and be given immediate attention.
    - tsdlts 6y ago
      Healthcare is consistently ranked as a top 2 priority amongst Americans polled and has over 70% support. It even have majority support amongst republican voters. This is a false equivalency.
      - 2OEH8eoCRo0 6y ago
        I think that is generally true- though there is great disagreement over the implementation. Healthcare has 70% just in general? So is that public option, Medicare for All, or single payer? What does the support for these items look like when broken down?
        runarberg 6y ago
        I think it is a bit unfair to ask for a specific implementation detail on policy which the general population overwhelmingly supports. You can always arbitrarily make a policy look less popular by taking only the subset of the general population that supports a specific implementation. An example: Say 90% of the people of Madeupistan supports some sort of increased autonomy from the Roman empire (which just became a democracy after 2000 years of imperial rule). But a disingenuous pollster wants to make it look like the support isn’t that great. So instead they will point to the fact that only about 40% of the population supports independence. This is ignoring the fact that 30% of the population want something similar to home rule, and 20% want to be in a federation with neighboring states.
        sudosysgen 6y ago
        There is over 70% support specifically for Medicare For All : https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/494602-poll-69-percent-of-voters-support-medicare-for-all https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/494602-pol...
- toiletfuneral 6y ago
  now we're talking!
einpoklum 6y ago
The two more prominent political parties which stand for this seem to be: Green Party of the USA https://www.gp.org/ https://www.gp.org/ The People's Party - recently formed, channels a lot of the disappointment of Sanders supporters but also non-two-party elements https://peoplesparty.org/ https://peoplesparty.org/ However, my personal opinion is that it is more important to develop anti-imperialism in the context of organizing independent labor unions, unemployed people's organizations, neighborhood committees, student unions and such. This has many reasons IMO which I won't go into in this thread.
stickfigure 6y ago
> which party do I vote for if I want... Congratulations, Citizen! You have discovered that you live in a democracy, and you hold a minority viewpoint. This is a feature of the system, not a bug. The benefit is: There are countless other minority viewpoints (some of which involve your immediate execution) that will also not be automatically scheduled for implementation. The solution here is to start campaigning! Not for political office, you've got little chance of that - but rather to shift the public consciousness so that the entire body politic is more sympathetic to your viewpoint. Your political opponent is the Overton Window. Good luck, Citizen.
- sudosysgen 6y ago
  The political opponent isn't the Overton Window. It's the 2-party system and the ratchet effect. No matter how the population feels on a particular issue, as long as the elites of both parties disagree, there is no way for it to be implemented. A wedge issue will be substituted and strategic voting will ensure compliance. Then, the issue will be substituted in the public discourse with a choice between the status-quo and something even worse, or something marginaly better and something significantly worse. In the end, there is no way to campaing as long as you have both political institutions against you. In the United States, there is no statistically significant correlation between the sympathy of the "body politic", if you take that to be the mass of voters, and actual policy[0]. Put simply, your rationalization is a feel-good narrative. And that's not even considering media capture, manufactured consent, ideological indoctrination through cultural hegemony, etc... [0]: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-politics/article/testing-theories-of-american-politics-elites-interest-groups-and-average-citizens/62327F513959D0A304D4893B382B992B https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-poli...

2OEH8eoCRo0 6y ago

Why are there no US political parties advocating for the dissolution of the US?

runarberg 6y ago
Well there is the Aloha ʻĀina Party that seeks Hawaiian sovereignty, Several Cascadian independence movements that seek to seceded the Cascadian bioregion from the US. There is the Second Vermont Republic. Puerto Rico has a few parties advocating for independence, as are parties that advocate for Samoan unification. I’m less familiar with the federal level, but I wouldn’t be surprised to find the dissolution of the US (or at least the defederation in favor of a decentralized union) on the political left including several socialist and anarchist parties.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 6y ago
  So there are. That's cool. There seems to be a selfish trend where someone with a legitimate though perhaps unpopular opinion expects to be given more consideration than others. Complains that the game is rigged since their unpopular opinion is not allowed to jump the line and be given immediate attention.
  - tsdlts 6y ago
    Healthcare is consistently ranked as a top 2 priority amongst Americans polled and has over 70% support. It even have majority support amongst republican voters. This is a false equivalency.
    - 2OEH8eoCRo0 6y ago
      I think that is generally true- though there is great disagreement over the implementation. Healthcare has 70% just in general? So is that public option, Medicare for All, or single payer? What does the support for these items look like when broken down?
      - runarberg 6y ago
        I think it is a bit unfair to ask for a specific implementation detail on policy which the general population overwhelmingly supports. You can always arbitrarily make a policy look less popular by taking only the subset of the general population that supports a specific implementation. An example: Say 90% of the people of Madeupistan supports some sort of increased autonomy from the Roman empire (which just became a democracy after 2000 years of imperial rule). But a disingenuous pollster wants to make it look like the support isn’t that great. So instead they will point to the fact that only about 40% of the population supports independence. This is ignoring the fact that 30% of the population want something similar to home rule, and 20% want to be in a federation with neighboring states.
      - sudosysgen 6y ago
        There is over 70% support specifically for Medicare For All : https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/494602-poll-69-percent-of-voters-support-medicare-for-all https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/494602-pol...
toiletfuneral 6y ago
now we're talking!

einpoklum 6y ago

The two more prominent political parties which stand for this seem to be: Green Party of the USA https://www.gp.org/ https://www.gp.org/ The People's Party - recently formed, channels a lot of the disappointment of Sanders supporters but also non-two-party elements https://peoplesparty.org/ https://peoplesparty.org/ However, my personal opinion is that it is more important to develop anti-imperialism in the context of organizing independent labor unions, unemployed people's organizations, neighborhood committees, student unions and such. This has many reasons IMO which I won't go into in this thread.

stickfigure 6y ago

> which party do I vote for if I want... Congratulations, Citizen! You have discovered that you live in a democracy, and you hold a minority viewpoint. This is a feature of the system, not a bug. The benefit is: There are countless other minority viewpoints (some of which involve your immediate execution) that will also not be automatically scheduled for implementation. The solution here is to start campaigning! Not for political office, you've got little chance of that - but rather to shift the public consciousness so that the entire body politic is more sympathetic to your viewpoint. Your political opponent is the Overton Window. Good luck, Citizen.

sudosysgen 6y ago
The political opponent isn't the Overton Window. It's the 2-party system and the ratchet effect. No matter how the population feels on a particular issue, as long as the elites of both parties disagree, there is no way for it to be implemented. A wedge issue will be substituted and strategic voting will ensure compliance. Then, the issue will be substituted in the public discourse with a choice between the status-quo and something even worse, or something marginaly better and something significantly worse. In the end, there is no way to campaing as long as you have both political institutions against you. In the United States, there is no statistically significant correlation between the sympathy of the "body politic", if you take that to be the mass of voters, and actual policy[0]. Put simply, your rationalization is a feel-good narrative. And that's not even considering media capture, manufactured consent, ideological indoctrination through cultural hegemony, etc... [0]: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-politics/article/testing-theories-of-american-politics-elites-interest-groups-and-average-citizens/62327F513959D0A304D4893B382B992B https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-poli...